HH bug got me ... Part One!

Rob DiStefano · February 18, 2011, 06:47:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by tradlongbow:
Rob-

I love the bow,Congrats! The question that I have is do you find that the carmelized bamboo stiffer then regular bamboo? The reason that I'm asking is that I find my bow with carmelized bamboo to be stiffer and also faster. If it's not the carmelized bamboo that's stiffer, it must be a few pounds more than the 50#'s that it's marked. I haven't checked the poundage on my scale yet, I will tomorrow. I thought maybe it was the carmelized bamboo that was making the difference.

Darren

at this point, other than for looks i can't tell the difference 'tween the standard heat tempered and the "candy wood".

i've yet to find a craig hill that tested out at the inked draw weight - all have been heavier by at least 1.5#, with some lots heavier (almost 4#). i use a "usps calibrated" easton digital bow scale.

Kevin L. · February 18, 2011, 07:10:00 AM

I haven't tried a Hill with carmelized bamboo yet, but in making bamboo flyrods, the browning or carmelization, does increase the quickness of the rod for the same taper. How this compares to a bow lamination, I couldn't say, since we're talking about a completely different application, but the difference in a fly rod is distinct.

David Mitchell · February 18, 2011, 07:23:00 AM

Rob, my experience with the weight of my Hills as well--all have been 3-4# heavier than marked.

February 18, 2011, 07:35:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by David Mitchell:
Rob, my experience with the weight of my Hills as well--all have been 3-4# heavier than marked.

Dave,Rob, I learned about Craig's propensity for slightly heavy finished weights in recent readings here in this mega-thread. I am hoping that will be fairly consistent because I ordered mine three pounds lighter than my target. Looking for 60ish at 29" and ordered 57#.

Has anybody discussed this with Craig? Several years ago I built a few mild r/d longbows and used a mechanical (spring) scale...it was consistently heavier than when other's pulled them on their scales. Maybe this is par for the course.. If his scale indicates heavy (consistently) I should I'll be okay... :rolleyes:

Benny Nganabbarru · February 18, 2011, 07:38:00 AM

Nice bow, Rob. I haven't weighed my second two Hills, but my first (I think I mentioned) was spot-on on my mate's scales.

Rob DiStefano · February 18, 2011, 07:54:00 AM

there are analog and digital weigh scales. there are known reference weights for calibration of all scales. imo, all analog scales are inaccurate in one weigh (pun intended) or another. some are grossly inaccurate. digital scales, once calibrated, are extremely accurate. like comparing an 8 track audio tape to digital mp3.

also important is how the bow weight is measured. i use a 32" arrow shaft with nock, measure from the nock groove to make 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 inch marks right on the shaft. simply put a clothespin at the 28" mark, nock the shaft, pull 'till the clothespin touches the riser front. humans doing this weight check thing will find digital variances of between 2 and 4 ounces. i make 6 pulls and take the average.

longbowben · February 18, 2011, 08:42:00 AM

I think my new bow is to light im going to have him check that also before he changes the handle.And i talked to craig on the carmelized bamboo he said there is no difference in performance they are both heat treated.

Rob DiStefano · February 18, 2011, 09:05:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by longbowben:
....And i talked to craig on the carmelized bamboo he said there is no difference in performance they are both heat treated.

yep, both heat tempered, but not alike.

i've heat tempered lots of locally grown bamboo taken from large groves around my town ... really excellent stuff that i use for crafting flutes. i've even made a few arrows from it. imo, this is bow quality boo. dunno the specific genus of my boo, but there are over 1600 varieties of boo/cane around the globe.

the culm sheath (outer skin) changes color and stiffness with the intensity and duration of heat, as the internal grass resin heats up and forms a hard varnish coating over the sheath. in the process, huge amounts of steam is generated as any internal moisture is vaporized.

i flame the green boo with a propane torch and can easily change the color from light beige to amber to chocolate brown/black. the longer it's flamed, the darker the color and stiffer the boo gets ... that is, it's harder to bend, for sure. i haven't done any scientific tests, but with the added stiffness it appears there's a loss of elasticity that brings the grass somewhat closer to the threshold of snapping. now, this is with tubular, sheathed boo. grinding the sheath off the culm to expose the pith is another story i would think and i have no experience with that.

so, is the long tempered boo faster/stiffer than the short tempered boo? imo, probably. can that difference be measured? probably. can that difference be perceived in comparable longbows. i think not. ymmv.

Blueridge · February 18, 2011, 10:08:00 AM

On bow wts. Can anybody really tell the difference in 2 or 3 pounds. Sounds like a diff in scales, Just shoot em !

Rob DiStefano · February 18, 2011, 10:14:00 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by Blueridge:
On bow wts. Can anybody really tell the difference in 2 or 3 pounds. Sounds like a diff in scales, Just shoot em !

oh yes indeedy, sir. but for me it don't matter all that much. rather have more weight than less. with craig hill bows, if you want 55@28, order it as 53@28. :D

longbowben · February 18, 2011, 10:35:00 AM

I can tell instantly that a bow is 2 or 3 lbs off.

Blueridge · February 18, 2011, 11:00:00 AM

I agree, a few pounds more is more better.

Wannabe1 · February 18, 2011, 11:46:00 AM

And yes, you can feel the difference. My Owl is 51# @ 29" and it feels more like 55#. My Tembo is 51# @ 29" and it feels spot on or possibly a pound lighter.

tg2nd · February 18, 2011, 12:52:00 PM

All three of mine are spot on.

tradlongbow · February 18, 2011, 01:26:00 PM

Rob- When is Howard Hill Archery going to get a cool advertising spot on Tradgang?

Darren

Rob DiStefano · February 18, 2011, 01:36:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by tradlongbow:
Rob- When is Howard Hill Archery going to get a cool advertising spot on Tradgang?

Darren

that's pretty much up to craig, and when banner ad space becomes available - we're full up right now on the big stuff.

tradlongbow · February 19, 2011, 09:53:00 AM

SpankyNeal-

Did you get your new SunSet Hill?

Darren

canopyboy · February 19, 2011, 10:30:00 AM

So you guys got me thinking. I know some of you pull sizeable weights all the time. But I've only ever shot a Hoyt 45# recurve. My new Owl blank that I finished recently seemed a lot bigger of a jump than what I thought my requested 55# @ 29" should have been. (The recurve is a bit heavy and comes in at almost 50# at 29".)

So I weighed the Owl this morning. Used tape instead of a clothes pin. First I checked my draw and had my daughter mark it. Average 28-7/8". Close enough for government work. Marked 29" from where the string would sit in the nock, and pulled until the tape touched the riser.

Any guesses?

How about 62#? I guess if Craig is a few pounds heavier on a finished bow, there's a few more on top of that at the blank stage and I didn't take enough off.

I checked my digital scale with NIST traceable calibration weights at work. So I'm pretty sure the reading is accurate.

I still love the bow. I just need to keep eating spinach!

Wannabe1 · February 19, 2011, 10:54:00 AM

Ouch! Not sure spinach would cut it for me. I'd re-sand it and try and take more off if it was me. Good luck and make sure you don't hurt your shoulder! You will have problems later, trust me. :rolleyes:

straitera · February 19, 2011, 10:58:00 AM

62# will sling an arrow pdq. Exercise yourself into fit & you may be sorry you didn't do it before. JMHO. Best of luck.