What to expect for selfbow performance?

Doug Treat · July 30, 2007, 02:57:00 PM

I'm thinking about getting into primative archery and was wondering what kind of speed I should expect out of a selfbow, built by a beginner-me. For those of you who have shot yours through a chronograph, what was the bow weight, draw length, arrow weight, and speed of your selfbow? Thanks. I'm used to shooting 600 gr. arrows about 150 fps with my old recurve so anything close to that would be OK for me. Thanks.

BLACK WOLF · July 30, 2007, 03:58:00 PM

150fps. is totally doable with selfbows and I would even say that 150 is about the average with an 8 to 10g./lbs. arrow.

When you start getting into the upper 170's and above is when the bowyer has done their homework and designed and tillered a bow with cast in mind.

Ray

kctreeman · July 30, 2007, 10:16:00 PM

I shot with Chaley Lamb a few years ago at MOJAM and he was using a selfbow. One of the finest shooting bows I've ever seen. I kind of doubted a self bows ability until that day. Charley must have been drawing that thing about 30" and it was as fast as most bosws I've shot with. I keep building self bows hoping to get one to perform like his. Maybe one day it will happen.

buckeyebowhunter · July 30, 2007, 10:37:00 PM

Selfbows can be as fast as any laminated bow, the key to getting a fast shooting selfbow is dry wood which will give the bow very little or no string follow, I built my first selfbow last winter by following instructions from the traditional bowyers bible volume 1. For it being my first bow and it being made from a maple tree I cut from my back yard it turned out very nice and shoots fast and flat. Good Luck with your bows.-Robert

DesertDude · July 30, 2007, 11:56:00 PM

Just take a look on page 42 of the "Quebec Bear Hunt" post.......I'll never second guess my
set-up

the Ferret · July 31, 2007, 08:15:00 AM

I'm here Mike..another guy asking about wooden bow speeds and chrongraphs and such ..sheesh. Selfbows and chronographs go together like Elizabeth and Rosie ODonnel.Do yourself a favor and if you like your wooden bow, NEVER shoot it through a chronograph.There is no quicker way to become disenchanted with a wonderful wooden bow than to put expectations of speed on it it may not be able to achieve.

An "average" 50# selfbow will shoot a 500 grain arrow 150 per second. A great 50# selfbow will shoot that same arrow about 165 fps.We learned that from testing hundreds of wooden bows thouroughly at Mojam 1, some made by average joes and some made by the best wooden bowyers in the country. Average selfbows kill game just as efficiently as great selfbows, because in reality it's not the bow, but the arrow and the archer that kills game.

If a bow sits in your hand well, is pleasant to shoot with no jarring upon release, if it's quiet when shot, it it points well and shoots where your looking, if it's of legal weight, if you shoot properly spined arrows of 10-14 ggp at unalarmed game with no obstructions within your effective range, putting the arrow where it's supposed to be, the selfbow will do it's part and get the job done whether it shoots 136 fps or 175 fps.

If you make/have/buy a wooden bow and it pleases you when you shoot it, that is all that is important.Chronographs are for those who enjoy peeing up the wall contests.

RayMO · July 31, 2007, 08:30:00 AM

Mickey....

Quotepeeing up the wall contests.

LOL...

Thanks for the laugh

RayMO

John Scifres · July 31, 2007, 09:06:00 AM

Doug,

With all due respect,

Quotegetting into primative archery

and,

Quotewondering what kind of speed

don't really go together. Not to say primitive bows can't be fast...just that you really don't need to worry about it. You know a good, hard shooting bow when you shoot one. There are so many great educational tools around that you should be able to build a great selfbow. But follow Mickey's advice and keep it away from a speedgun.

bowmac · July 31, 2007, 09:21:00 AM

I'd agree with Mickey. You don't really want to chrono selfbows. If you really like the bow and it shoots well for you don't bother with the chrono. If you do, the next thing you know someone will be saying "why my bow shoots 180' per sec". Then you will start second guessing yourself and the bow. Guys are always using my chrono here for there wheelies, recurves and longbows. Whenever they give me grief for not chronying my selfbows I just say the bow "gets r done for me". Thats all that counts.

Doug Treat · July 31, 2007, 10:11:00 AM

OK, no chrono for me then. I was just a bit worried about hunting elk with it. I have me a shoulder problem that seems to like 40# but it doesn't like 47#. According to Mr. Ferret (thanks for the info.- BTW), if I make a 40# bow that shoots 400 gr. @ 150 fps, I should expect about...maybe 130 when I move up to a respectable 600 gr. arrow (I'm a firm believer in heavy arrows for elk). Does that sound about right? My elk experience has been with 590-630 gr. arrow shot at about 150 fps. and I've had great results with that setup. I was wondering if I would be moving into that "one lung" range if I dropped that low in speed. Has anyone here used a similar super-slow, but heavy arrow setup for elk? What were your results? Thanks.

Hawkeye · July 31, 2007, 10:41:00 AM

Doug,

Since I've not taken an elk, I'll leave your latest question for those who have, but wanted to give an "Amen" to what Mickey and John had to say. If you are new to "Primitive Archery," these are two of the voices to listen to. WIth the bows they've built and the game they've taken with them, I respect both their perspectives!

I just wanted to comment on the problem I saw several times with guys who wanted to chrono wood bows. They shot their new pride and joy, didn't see numbers that equalled or topped an Adcock ACS or Border Black ouglas, and were suddenly no longer happy with what had just previously been a prized possession!

They shoot again, now overdrawing by an inch (or maybe two), try lighter arrows, ANYTHING for a number that will STILL not reach the magic figures we sometimes hear. Sometimes, the bow is even damaged or takes a set from the abuse....

That's the worst-case scenario of chronos and wood. I know that is not what you were after or asking, but it is why I agree so strongly this the advice you got from Mickey and John!

Get to "know" your bow, learn to shoot it well, and enjoy your hunt. The number is just... a number!

Hope you have a GREAT hunt and a wonderful time with your new direction in archery! It's all so good!

Daryl

ChristopherO · July 31, 2007, 11:36:00 AM

Sorry to bring this heresy to light but having just looked at Ferret's web pictorial last night for the first time I couldn't help but notice that "Brother Randy" was shooting his newly crafted Hickory Board Bow through a chrony, none the less, according to the caption. Mind you, that picture was taken 6 or 7 years ago. LOL!

Doug, it sounds that the reason for you need to know the speed is legitimate and understandable concerning elk hunting and adequate power from your weapon. For that reason I would think that to clock your arrows out of the self bow is an acceptable practice. ONLY THIS ONCE, THOUGH!

Ghost Dog · July 31, 2007, 12:08:00 PM

There are two speeds to be concerned with: fast enough and not fast enough. If a bow feels like it will deliver an arrow accurately and in a timely fashion, it will.

the Ferret · July 31, 2007, 01:17:00 PM

Christopher...that picture was actually taken at Mojam 1 when we were doing the bow testing in 1999. It was at that time I also discovered I made a very "average" bow ha ha. That bow went on to cleanly harvest a late season whitetail BTW

Ghost Dog makes a great point, there is fast enough and not fast enough and you generally KNOW after just a few arrows if the bow will perform up to your expectations.

I have shot up to the feathers in a big hog with a 42# selfbow. I have killed whitetail bucks and does, multiple hogs, a couple javies, and 2 turkeys with selfbows ranging from 43-48#. I have seen arrows bounce off the shield plate of a big boar hog from a 45# bow and I shot a big boar bear in the shoulder with a 50#er and the arrow fell out. Shot placement is everything LOL

Personally I'd have some reservations about going after elk with a 40# bow on any kind, even a glass bow. Elk are pretty tough critters. If I did I'd be mighty choosy about shot selection, under 15 yards quartering away and slip it in behind the ribs going forward would be my preferred shot and I'd use a good heavy arrow of around 600 grains plus with really sharp cut on impact 2 blade head. If 40# is legal and it's all you can handle then I'd use it, but I'd be super picky about my shot. I'd rather pass on a shot that wasn't perfect than to wound such a magnificient animal. By the way my wife killed a 4x4 bull with a 40 something (46# I think) compound, a 1916 arrow and a 3 blade thunderhead 125 a dozen years or so ago.

KyGal · July 31, 2007, 01:30:00 PM

There is a very wide spread in performance among selfbows. It can be the wood (moisture, density, voodoo...), or whether the design fit the wood, or hurried tiller of an otherwise sound project.

I guess i fall into the "no chrono" camp. When I shoot a selfbow, or any bow, I have certain expectations based on other bows I shoot, including R/D fiberglass longbows or recurves. If the bow "dogs" I can usually tell on the first arrow! If it is a sweet one that surprises you and is a joy to shoot you will know it.

KyGal · July 31, 2007, 01:37:00 PM

Oh, plus I think the chrono thing gets us into the commercial trap of wanting the latest and greatest. I know several dads living near me who always think they need an $800 new bow just because it is better than the one they bought 3 years ago and filled the freezer year after year with. This in families where $$ is obviously tight.

All for that extra f.p.s. I get kinda attached to a successful weapon, and I think if the chrono busts that partnership up it is a bad thing.

As a bowyer though I do get curious sometimes.

John Scifres · July 31, 2007, 02:19:00 PM

I would not expect that your first few 40# selfbows will be up to the task of hunting elk. I have made a few that would certainly kill an elk but my preference would be 50#.

Once you make a few, you'll learn to maximize efficiency through design. They'll also draw and shoot sweeter which will help with that shoulder.

For now, stick with your glass bows for elk. Pay your selfbow dues and make a screamer that'll do what you want. It might take a while. You're not in a hurry are you??? I hope not.

tippit · July 31, 2007, 02:39:00 PM

I shot that bear on page 42 of the Quebec Bear Hunt thread. Dang, I shoulda chronod that bow first to see if it would work
"[dntthnk]"

Doc

Equipment:

Osage selfbow 50#@27 (my making so not nearly as good as the real selfbowyers on this site)

Large stone head about the size of a Deadhead...Woody sharp!

NorthShoreLB · August 01, 2007, 05:16:00 AM

Not to mention how extremey quite a selfbow is, my average recovery after a selfbow hit is withinn sight, critters for the most part have no idea what happened to them (even with hits in the 10 yards range),...you gotta love that, I'll take it over 20 extra fps any day

George Tsoukalas · August 01, 2007, 08:30:00 AM

"I'm thinking about getting into primative archery and was wondering what kind of speed I should expect out of a selfbow, built by a beginner-me."

Doug, I think talking about speed with a selfbow is ok but, more importantly, I think that a beginner should concentrate on making a good dozen bows before worrying about speed. I spent 1989-1992 (dates are by memory; wish I kept records) making 14 tries at a decent selfbow before I got a shooter I could hunt with. Jawge