Staining Cedars

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok. Let me see if I got the steps right for what I want to do. I'm making myself some cedar arrows. I understand the whole direction of grain thing now. What I want is just some stained cedar shafts with feathers. No cresting or crowning. I will do that later on when I get better at what I'm trying to do now. So, I've got the nock tapers done. Now, I just stain the shafts until I reach my desired shade right? I will be rubbing it on. Then, do I use wipe on poly or spray on or does it matter? Anyone have a suggestion on what to use to seal them. Thanks, Justin

[Straitshot]

I dip them in water base Polyurethane. Dries quick and makes a high gloss glass hard finish. I usually dip at least twice. If cresting and crown dip I will dip a third time.

[Aaron Proffitt 2]

Justin,
 I like to use 3' lengths of pvc,about say "3 in diameter.I then put all my shafts into the pipe(the pipe is capped of course) and pour Watco Danish Oil in whatever shade you choose and just let 'em soak before about 24 hours.Then you just take 'em out and wipe 'em down,your ready to go.They are stained, sealed,gained about 40 grains in weight and ready to go. You can't use Bohning glues ,though.Only bad part.Anyway,that's my favorite way of working them.

[Steelhead]

wipe on poly works great.I like about 5 coats but you could use less.Use an old T-shirt and cut it into 6 by 6 inch pieces.I used minwax ebony stain and liked the looks very well.Not quite black but a very very dark rich brown color.

[Lost Arra]

1. Minwax stain (wiped on).

2. Minwax wipe-on poly (usually 4-6 coats).

3. I use tape for fletching.

4. Paste wax

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Does the water based poly hold up better with target shooting than the oil based? I have been using Spar Urethane and like the way it looks...until you shoot for a while. It shows some target wear. Can I stain with oil based stain and then seal with water based poly?

[JBiorn]

Aaron----would Duco cement work?

Jeff

[Aaron Proffitt 2]

Jeff,
 Duco works well,there is another kind that I also use that I pick up from Hobby Lobby that holds like nothing I've ever seen regardless of the shaft material or finish, the name escapes me at the moment . But,yes,Duco works well.

[LBR]

My favorite method/finish.......

Tom Kiessling's process for making wooden arrows using the
  epoxy/acetone finish.


1) First thing I do is stain shafts.  I usually use aniline dyes from
  Gray Ghost Archery, but any stain will usually work.  I only stain
  to where the stain and crown will meet.

2) After stain dries, using 0000 steelwool to remove any raised grain,
  then stain again if necessary to achieve desired color.

3) If I don't have any epoxy formula made up, I use the following
  procedure for that.
 
  *I purchase Devcon 2-ton epoxy and a can of acetone from Wal-Mart
  in the paint section.  I use a 4 ounce jar (baby food or mason
  jelly jar) to squirt the entire contents of epoxy in to.  I then
  completely mix the 2 epoxy parts until clear.  I then add 1 ounce
  of acetone (1/2 jar) and stir until the epoxy appears to have
  dissolved and looks only like acetone remains.  I then fill the
  jar with acetone and stir again for a few seconds.*
 
4) Applied one coat of epoxy as described next.
 
  *Always wear chemical resistant gloves, I use the blue Nitrate cloves
  that the tools trucks (Snap-On, Mac) sell to local automotive and
  diesel garage mechanics.  I use small cotton rags from t-shirts.  
  Hold arrow at nock or point end, make one long continuous swipe
  from end to end.  Then rotate shaft 180 degrees and do again. (Do
  not attempt to double wipe on same side, the rag will stick to
  the first coat).

5) After epoxy dries, check for raised grain.  Remove if needed.

6) Apply a second coat of epoxy.

7) I will mark the shafts for my crown.  I use 2 inch masking tape
  at the crown line.  I then spray the crowns on, (I usually use Krylon
  enamels, and usually 2 coats will be enough).  **If you are going to
  use fluorescent colors, always spray a basecoat of white first.**

8) After crown dries, apply cresting lines (Testors model paints work great).

9) After crown and cresting are COMPLETELY dry, spray or brush the
  crown and crestings with a thin coat of Min Wax Water Based
  Polyacyrlic (blue can).  I prefer to brush mine on while shaft is in my
  crester.  (I use an Arrow Specialties crester).

10) After poly dries, apply second coat.

11) After letting poly dry an hour, apply first coat of epoxy over
   entire shaft.  Make sure to check wiping rag for paint residue
   after first arrow to insure that acetone is not attacking cresting
   and crown. If paint is being attacked, crest the arrow if
   needed, and give another coat of poly over all arrows.  Some
   paint will show up from the nock end where there wasn't any epoxy.
   
12) If all is ok, I will usually put on 5 to 7 coats of epoxy,
   make sure to smooth out finish very lightly with 0000 steel wool
   between all coats.

13) I then set nocks using Duco cement, and mount feathers with either
   Bohning Fletch Tape or regular super glues (not the gel stuff).
   I prefer the tape.  This makes for easy feather repair if needed.  
   Make sure to remove any excess epoxy from the nock taper first,
   the cement will stick better.  I do this with the small blade of my
   pocket knife.

[LBR]

Forgot to mention--if you don't want to cap or crest, just leave those steps out.  A friend of mine tinkered with this finish (a variation on Jay Massey's epoxy bow finish) to make it work for arrows.  Works better than anything else I've tried.

Chad

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sounds like a bunch of work for just some hunting arrows LBR. I don't really want to make arrows to hang on the wall. I'm just gonna use some wipe on stain, then some wipe on poly. Thanks guy. Justin

[JBiorn]

Ta, but why not make purty ones?

Jeff

[jacobsladder]

coldsteel... I use minwax oilbase stain... two coats of hellmans spar urethane.. sand lightly between each coat... durable finish ... good looking arrow...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Jacobsladder, sounds just about what I wanna do and what I'm looking for.

[jacobsladder]

coldsteel... I use a foam brush for the stain... let it sit for 10 minutes.. and then wipe off... the longer it sits the darker it gets. I almost forgot to mention that I use the wood conditioner by minwax before staining... It is suppose to condition the wood for a more even stain result.. I use a foam brush for the spar urethane also let dry at least 4 hours .. sand lightly and put on the last coat. Sand very lightly again...just enough to knock down any roughness. I bought like 20 foam brushes at the craft store for 3.00. Straighten your shafts between each step. What I like about the spar urethane is it's a great finish.. no moisture in and no moisture out of the shaft.. i'm going to try armor all to help with target burn on 3-ds... we'll see how that works... You got a great deal on that chek-mate... if it doesnt work out I'd be interested for my son... I've been using fletch tape on the urethane with good results.

[jacobsladder]

coldsteel.... One staining technique i saw from a guy in our traditional league... He stained with a light stain and wiped down. Let dry.  Then he took a brush or rag and swirled the same color stain over the shaft again..this time letting the stain dry without wiping it down.. You get a really cool light colored background with some neat darker lined patterns down the shaft....... then put your finish over it... looks really neat and is easy to do.... good luck!

[Ray Hammond]

what you will find out coldsteel, is that moisture intrusion into shafts is what kills them quicker than anything.

what LBR explained is a way to build arrows that will not break because the tip end gets weak from moisture intrusion.

Hunting arrows take a harder pounding than practice arrows, being out in the rain, dew, fog, shot into the ground, etc.

If you just want stuff to throw away in a few months, anything at all will last that long.

Good wood arrows that are intended to kill things should be the BEST arrows you ever built- because they are supposed to be your most perfect arrows...you've got a living being at the other end of that shot, it deserves the best you can throw at it in my opinion.

It doesnt have to be fancy to be the best, but it has to be sealed from the elements, matched perfectly to your bow, and matched to its mates,to give optimum performance.