Follow up to “I always miss left!”

[Boondocks]

First of all, Thank you very much for those who have taken the time to share their thoughts, opinions and expertise with me. I really appreciate it. Based on your comments I have determined that I'm shooting an overspined arrow. I am right handed, shoot a Spyder XL 64" bow that is 44# at 29". I have been shooting a 34" long Black Eagle Vintage 400 spine arrow with standard hardware and a 125gr field point. After Bare shaft tuning it is kicking right 3 or 4" at 15 yds. The 500 spine is kicking nock left about the same indicating weak spine. (Up and down is good). So here is my question... for Christmas I got some Easton Axis Traditional arrows in 340 spine. I am thinking of sending them back and getting 500 spine. They only come in (to my knowledge) 31" so I am worried that they might be over spined still. I need to lose some length anyway, what would y'all suggest?  I was thinking I could add the brass hitserts if they were a little stiff. Ok, teach me Master Jedis. 😄

[Orion]

Send them back for the .500s.  They'll be pretty close. Doubt you'll have to add much additional weight to the front end, but many options if you need to do so.

[Tom0728]

Id also say go with the 500.

[strick9]

Yep send them back for the 500s and go ahead and get some 100 grain inserts and a field point test kit for the 400s so you can tune those in as well.

[Roy from Pa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJ6-HjPMTM

[Roy from Pa]

https://www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning

[BigJim]

When explaining bare shaft tuning, either most don't understand, or forget to mention that arrows that show weak can also be too stiff. Now generally, an arrow that shows stiff is almost always stiff. But an arrow that wants to show stiff but can't clear the bow will bounce off the bow and kick to the weak side giving a false reading.

Due to the extremely high percentage of guys using arrows that are too stiff, I would venture an educated guess that the false reading is much more common than an accurate reading. I can't tell you how it is possible that shafts that are too stiff can bounce of the bow and give you a good bare shaft read, but this is fairly common as well.

Unaware of the Spyder bows  shelf cut.. center or past.. but if you are not drawing to 29"s, you will likely need 600's except in the axis.. that would be a 500.
BigJim

[Roy from Pa]

Excellent post, Jim.
Another thing often overlooked is the brace height.
Raising or lowering the brace height can affect arrow flight also, since the arrow would be leaving the string sooner or later in the shot cycle, depending on brace height.
And proper form is another biggie when it comes to tunning.

[BAK]

Loved seeing Big Jim mention this, "Due to the extremely high percentage of guys using arrows that are too stiff".  I so often see guys posting about using a .340 or such spine out of a 45 pound bow.   I just know they've got it wrong but it seems like a matter of being a "man" for how stiff an arrow you can make fly.  Sort of funny in a way.

You want to get it right?  Get yourself a set of test arrows, various spines, and different weighted field tips, now start learning....

[trad_bowhunter1965]

When explaining bare shaft tuning, either most don't understand, or forget to mention that arrows that show weak can also be too stiff. Now generally, an arrow that shows stiff is almost always stiff. But an arrow that wants to show stiff but can't clear the bow will bounce off the bow and kick to the weak side giving a false reading.

Due to the extremely high percentage of guys using arrows that are too stiff, I would venture an educated guess that the false reading is much more common than an accurate reading. I can't tell you how it is possible that shafts that are too stiff can bounce of the bow and give you a good bare shaft read, but this is fairly common as well.

Unaware of the Spyder bows  shelf cut.. center or past.. but if you are not drawing to 29"s, you will likely need 600's except in the axis.. that would be a 500.
BigJim

This has happen to me how you tell is spray some foot powder like Tinactin on the last 10 inches of your bare shaft it will leave a white mark on your riser and it will show on the bare shaft where it hitting the riser.

[kennym]

When explaining bare shaft tuning, either most don't understand, or forget to mention that arrows that show weak can also be too stiff. Now generally, an arrow that shows stiff is almost always stiff. But an arrow that wants to show stiff but can't clear the bow will bounce off the bow and kick to the weak side giving a false reading.

Due to the extremely high percentage of guys using arrows that are too stiff, I would venture an educated guess that the false reading is much more common than an accurate reading. I can't tell you how it is possible that shafts that are too stiff can bounce of the bow and give you a good bare shaft read, but this is fairly common as well.

Unaware of the Spyder bows  shelf cut.. center or past.. but if you are not drawing to 29"s, you will likely need 600's except in the axis.. that would be a 500.
BigJim

Great post Jim!

Case in point, my bro at one time shot arrows in a stiffer spine than I did, same bow and weight and draw length.  Finally tried mine and never went back to the stiffer ones.  Guess he had enough better form than I do that he could shoot them pretty well?

Now we shoot same arrow and point weight.

[Kirkll]

Here is a little high speed/ slow motion video I did on arrow paradox that explains the false readings you can get that  Big Jim was referring to.

These were fletched arrows, but look at the difference in arrow spine coming out of the same bow.

https://youtu.be/rqO6WkXJ87A


Kirk

[BAK]

OK, what am I missing?  I'm not seeing anything much different.  Am I looking at it wrong or what?

[BigJim]

BAK, the stiffer arrow makes contact with the bow as it goes through the sight window and kicks hard to the left almost taking out the chrono.
The weaker arrow gets quite close, but doesn't appear to make contact. I'm not sure what difference the feathers are making if any in the first 3 feet, but once down range, they can do such a good job that we can't see how bad the arrow is off.. at least if we are the shooter.
BigJim