Arrow Building Discussion

Osage1997 · December 22, 2021, 12:21:30 AM

Hey everyone, let me paint a bit of a picture on an issue I am currently having.

Just finished up a deal/agreement to purchase a new bow from one of our fellow Trad Gang members. It's a 62#@29 inch recurve bow, and I draw 29 on the dot. I currently have a bear grizzly that is 55@28 and an Assenheimer that is the same (I am drawing around 58 on both).

It has been very difficult finding arrows that are stiff enough to put the amount of weight up front that I want while shooting heavier poundage and having an arrow long enough (I really don't want to cut any lower than 29.5, because if I even slightly overdraw my broadhead will cause my arrow to de-nock when it hits the back of the shelf).

Currently shooting gold tip traditional classics 340, 80g insert, 150g broadhead, and have them cut at 29.5 on the dot for a perfect bare shaft tune on both of my recurves. I know that moving up another 4ish pounds is going to be way too much for these arrows, and I don't want to give up any FOC.

Anyone know of a good arrow where I can get them in a 300 spine? I still want to be able to purchase weighted inserts for the arrow, which has narrowed down my options quite a bit. Currently considering 3 rivers traditional only shafts, but their GPI is pretty terrible. It has made me consider purchasing them along with the insertable weight tubes, but the idea doesn't thrill me. Would like to have at least a 570-grain arrow with 16% FOC (preferably more of both).

Whiteoak63 · December 22, 2021, 08:01:02 AM

I think you can get there with a Easton Axis Traditional 340 and using the ethics inserts and collar.
The ethics setup will stiffen the shaft and allow you to get more out front.

bowmaster12 · December 22, 2021, 10:31:05 AM

Grizzly stick arrows. I will measure the ones I have they might be close length wise for you. They are the 320 and built to be 650 grains with a 200 grain tip and if i remember correctly over 20% foc. They ended up being too stiff for my set up. They have a ton of components and Im sure can set you up to fit your needs. If the arrows I have are long enough for you, we can work something out if you want.

Osage1997 · December 22, 2021, 10:41:39 AM

I've definitely considered grizzlystiks, but I'm not sure i can justify spending more on 6 shafts than i would normally spend on a dozen, if not a dozen and a half. Generally don't mind spending extra for quality, but are they truly worth being double the cost of FMJs or 3x worth traditional classics?

Whiteoak63 · December 22, 2021, 01:26:56 PM

I have friend shooting almost the same exact draw and weight as your set up.
He is shooting a 30" Easton Axis Traditional 340 with 150 grain VPA. Ethics collar and 60 grain insert. I think he said it weighs 550 or so. Flys perfect.
I have been shooting the Axis Traditional as well in a 500 and really like them.

bowmaster12 · December 22, 2021, 08:29:55 PM

Looks like they are a half inch short. They are 29 to base of point. If you think it would be beneficial to get them a try id be willing to send you one

Osage1997 · December 23, 2021, 11:36:08 AM

Thanks for all the ideas guys. The axis traditional arrows seem to be sold out most places, but 3 rivers has axis FMJs in 300 spine. I could drop in the 100 grain inserts with 125-150 heads and I believe they would tune up nicely somewhere in the 29.5-31 inch range. Would give me around a 590-grain arrow too. Anyone have experience shooting FMJs out of trad gear? I used to like them out of my wheel bows.

GCook · December 24, 2021, 07:51:26 AM

Bisch has been competing and killing with FMJs for a long time. He likes them really well.

Rob DiStefano · December 24, 2021, 09:52:39 AM

FWIW ... when my draw length was 29" (it has since shortened to 28" as my age has lengthened past the 3/4 century mark) I made 29.5" arrows using Beman Bowhunter carbons in 500 spine, with inserts and Wensel Woodsmans or Snuffers on the forward end with 255 grains of total weight, and 4" four fletch burnt feathers on the butt end. They flew like darts and killed some critters. Oh yes - longbows, 52# and 57#. I shoot split finger and never wear an arm guard. So, lots hasta do with what matters most - shooting form.

[attachment=1,msg2985794]

Kmaddox2a · December 24, 2021, 10:35:20 AM

Just a thought. I know ethics makes regular inserts too, so maybe if they have a weight thats viable in their aluminum options it can get you there. I know the insert portion at full length of 85gr in my outsert combo was long, which would stiffen a shaft pretty good. I know may not be gpi your looking at but im shooting a 340 Traditional Only Barebow and love them, basically a white 5mm axis.

Kmaddox2a · December 24, 2021, 10:36:45 AM

I originally wanted to use the heavier insert with my setup but they were too long and kept my shaft too stiff. Just some thoughts though as im shooting a diff setup than most with a 340 out of a 47# bow.

Osage1997 · December 24, 2021, 10:57:19 AM

Quote from: Kmaddox2a on December 24, 2021, 10:36:45 AM
I originally wanted to use the heavier insert with my setup but they were too long and kept my shaft too stiff. Just some thoughts though as im shooting a diff setup than most with a 340 out of a 47# bow.

Update: I ended up going with the barebow 300s. They are similar specs to the FMJs but run a bit cheaper so I am not as nervous experimenting with them. Ordered the Axis break-off inserts with them and a set of both 125 and 150 gain field tips, the break-off inserts can be either 50 or 75 grains. I think this is the set-up that will give me the most room to fine tune everything and pick out the exact weight and length I need. Thanks for everyones input, I think I combined a little bit of advice from every person.

Kmaddox2a · December 24, 2021, 11:00:59 AM

Good deal, like i said im loving these barebow arrows so far with my setup.

Osage1997 · December 24, 2021, 11:03:42 AM

Quote from: Rob DiStefano on December 24, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
FWIW ... when my draw length was 29" (it has since shortened to 28" as my age has lengthened past the 3/4 century mark) I made 29.5" arrows using Beman Bowhunter carbons in 500 spine, with inserts and Wensel Woodsmans or Snuffers on the forward end with 255 grains of total weight, and 4" four fletch burnt feathers on the butt end. They flew like darts and killed some critters. I shoot split finger and never wear an arm guard. So, lots hasta do with what matters most - shooting form.

[attachment=1,msg2985794]

What draw weight were you shooting and how deep was your shelf cut at the time Rob? I think some of the biggest things when I swapped from longbows to heavier recurves that changed were I gained a lot of energy efficiency out of the bow and my bows went from 1/8-inch away from center to 1/8-inch past center. Those things in combination with my heavy FOC and long-ish draw seems to desire quite the stiff arrow. I have never shot with an arm guard, and I would like to think my form is pretty consistent, though I always have room to improve. When I bare shaft tune, I usually won't make a change to the arrows until I take several shots and am 100% certain the shots I made were well executed.

Rob DiStefano · December 24, 2021, 11:17:15 AM

Quote from: Osage1997 on December 24, 2021, 11:03:42 AM
Quote from: Rob DiStefano on December 24, 2021, 09:52:39 AM
FWIW ... when my draw length was 29" (it has since shortened to 28" as my age has lengthened past the 3/4 century mark) I made 29.5" arrows using Beman Bowhunter carbons in 500 spine, with inserts and Wensel Woodsmans or Snuffers on the forward end with 255 grains of total weight, and 4" four fletch burnt feathers on the butt end. They flew like darts and killed some critters. I shoot split finger and never wear an arm guard. So, lots hasta do with what matters most - shooting form.

[attachment=1,msg2985794]

What draw weight were you shooting and how deep was your shelf cut at the time Rob? I think some of the biggest things when I swapped from longbows to heavier recurves that changed were I gained a lot of energy efficiency out of the bow and my bows went from 1/8-inch away from center to 1/8-inch past center. Those things in combination with my heavy FOC and long-ish draw seems to desire quite the stiff arrow. I have never shot with an arm guard, and I would like to think my form is pretty consistent, though I always have room to improve. When I bare shaft tune, I usually won't make a change to the arrows until I take several shots and am 100% certain the shots I made were well executed.

Geez Louise, that would have help, eh?

Longbows, 52# and 57#.

kevsuperg · December 26, 2021, 05:43:23 PM

I have a friend with 30 ish DL, 60ish # DW and he had the same issues with finding arrows stiff enough for his set up.
I came upon some Byron Ferguson heavy hunter arrows from gold tip.
They were perfect.
Seems the thicker wall made a stiffer arrow then an equivalent standard GT. 5575/ 400
If you can find some, I'd try that.
Kevin