HEAVIER OR FASTER.....

Wudstix · June 13, 2019, 03:15:02 PM

I shoot mid to upper 60#'s, so 640-710 is @10 gpp for me. On my 66-71# bows I prefer 750ish. It's easier picking up your arrows on the other side than looking for them along the blood trail. ;-)

YosemiteSam · June 13, 2019, 04:26:33 PM

I lean toward the Ashby camp. 650+ grains, lots of FOC. But I probably overcompensate from lack of much personal experience.

On the one hand, I appreciated that my arrow buried itself to the fletching on my turkey this year, even though the broadhead was dull from being shot into the dirt earlier that day. Couldn't shave a single hair off and it still soaked the fletching in blood.

On the other hand, maybe I wouldn't have buried a few arrows in the dirt under those turkeys if they were a little lighter and faster...

HUNT 24/7 · June 13, 2019, 08:22:14 PM

Yup, 1,263 grain arrow, quiet as mouse, slow as a slug, deadly as Chuck Norris.

Sean B · June 13, 2019, 08:32:19 PM

Thanks Wes. I couldn't post those pictures for some reason!!

HUNT 24/7 · June 13, 2019, 09:07:50 PM

Quote from: Sean B on June 13, 2019, 08:32:19 PM
Thanks Wes. I couldn't post those pictures for some reason!!

Got cha covered!

acedoc · June 14, 2019, 12:38:28 AM

Quote from: Friend on June 12, 2019, 06:30:09 PM
By estimating that you were using a 200 gn point...A Black Eagle Carnivore 400 would be a viable option...100 gn insert...250 gn point...~29 5/8 length...~573 total...~11.5 gpp...~29.6 EFOC

err, your gpi is wrong - 400 carnivore is 6.8 gpi
i am building with 350 spine and 100 gr inserts plus 190 grain points for a 530 grainer at 7.5 gpi

Friend · June 14, 2019, 01:13:40 AM

acedoc... 'gpp' represents grains per pound

acedoc · June 14, 2019, 01:48:53 AM

Quote from: Friend on June 14, 2019, 01:13:40 AM
acedoc... 'gpp' represents grains per pound

My bad! Should have been more deliberate in reading.

Trenton G. · June 14, 2019, 07:03:30 AM

I've tried shooting heavier arrows around 700 grains, but I always end up coming back to my 500 grain arrows for most of my bows. Personally I prefer a faster arrow because I've seen what a deer can do in the time between them hearing the bow and the arrow getting there. If you listen to interviews with Rick Duggan and Nathan Andersohn who both completed the super slam shooting traditional equipment, neither of them shoot overly heavy arrows. I don't remember which but I thought I remembered one of them using arrows that weighed around 475-480 grains for the majority of their hunts.

I don't know whether this helps, but I shot my first archery deer with a lighter draw weight wheel bow that shot that arrow about the same speed that my current hunting bow shoots a 500 grain arrow. That arrow weighed about 400 grains and zipped right through the deer at 19 yards. Was using a 85 grain stinger broadhead without the bleeder vanes.

TIM B · June 14, 2019, 07:13:11 AM

Interesting discussion....keep it coming
Tim B

acedoc · June 14, 2019, 07:18:11 AM

Read an ebook by a gent call Nick Berkampas who was shooting 14 gpp even with low poundage bows and was confident of taking any game with a proportionate adjusted arrow. A google search may help.

Wheels2 · June 14, 2019, 07:31:59 AM

9-10 gpp....
The standard for balancing penetration and trajectory.
Especially if you are getting a .500 shaft to fly from a 50# bow.

Maddog20/20 · June 14, 2019, 08:06:11 AM

Quote from: acedoc on June 14, 2019, 12:38:28 AM
Quote from: Friend on June 12, 2019, 06:30:09 PM
By estimating that you were using a 200 gn point...A Black Eagle Carnivore 400 would be a viable option...100 gn insert...250 gn point...~29 5/8 length...~573 total...~11.5 gpp...~29.6 EFOC
err, your gpi is wrong - 400 carnivore is 6.8 gpi
i am building with 350 spine and 100 gr inserts plus 190 grain points for a 530 grainer at 7.5 gpi

I think he was going by grains per pound of draw, not grains per inch. Normally, we talk in gpp because it's the weight of the arrow relative to draw weight that determines the energy.

*sorry, didn't see that someone already said it above.

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Maddog20/20 · June 14, 2019, 08:14:38 AM

Quote from: acedoc on June 14, 2019, 07:18:11 AM
Read an ebook by a gent call Nick Berkampas who was shooting 14 gpp even with low poundage bows and was confident of taking any game with a proportionate adjusted arrow. A google search may help.

I'm with Trenton G on this one. While a heavy arrow may penetrate better, deer are awfully fast animals and unless you're shooting a 70+# recurve, it's going to be decidedly slower than a 9-10gpp arrow. I can see the difference just shooting in the backyard without a chrony.

It's more than enough of a difference to turn a lung shot into a gut shot.

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acedoc · June 14, 2019, 10:37:29 AM

Quote from: Maddog20/20 on June 14, 2019, 08:14:38 AM
Quote from: acedoc on June 14, 2019, 07:18:11 AM
Read an ebook by a gent call Nick Berkampas who was shooting 14 gpp even with low poundage bows and was confident of taking any game with a proportionate adjusted arrow. A google search may help.

I'm with Trenton G on this one. While a heavy arrow may penetrate better, deer are awfully fast animals and unless you're shooting a 70+# recurve, it's going to be decidedly slower than a 9-10gpp arrow. I can see the difference just shooting in the backyard without a chrony.

It's more than enough of a difference to turn a lung shot into a gut shot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have shifted to an arrow around 150 grains lighter, I saw a 10 inch change in poi. Will update with chrony results on Sunday. I can't say for reaction of game but the result should translate linearly.
I have to say that I did not see any change in penetration on foam which may or not mean anything even with high Foc that I am running now. This is my subjective experience based on my experience and condition.

Charlie Lamb · June 14, 2019, 10:44:58 AM

So my take on this subject given the discussions is... I can kill stuff with a dull broadhead if my arrow is heavy enough. Seriously?

acedoc · June 14, 2019, 10:49:02 AM

Nope sir! I don't think anyone would shoot a dull head at game. I think we all are tinkerers trying or best to optimize things - most having some part of the picture not realizing that they are parts of one mosaic.

hybridbow hunter · June 14, 2019, 03:16:31 PM

Anyway nothing is better than fast heavy arrow

blacktailbob · June 14, 2019, 03:17:04 PM

When I think about animal reaction times I would think a white, excuse me...a very wary edgy whiteltail probably has some of the fasted reactions of any animal there is.

That said an arrow traveling 190 fps will arrive at a 30 yd target about 15 ft faster than an arrow going 160 fps as well as on a flatter trajectory as some here have noted.

My 44# Blacktail Sitka shoots my 423 gr ( or 9.7 gpp ) arrows about 188-190 fps and jumping up 50 grains to 10.9 gpp drops speed about 8 fps. So adding more weight yet becomes very noticeable in speed drop. If we humans can notice the difference I guarantee you a whitetail will also be able to react faster to a slower arrow.

If I were to drop even lighter I would get more speed but I also notice more bow noise which is way faster than an arrow. Going heavier than 9.7 gpp doesn't appear to my ears to be significantly quieter, so I'm sticking with the 9.7 gpp weight.

The trick I guess is figuring out what is best for your particular set up and needs. Speed vs noise. Yes a slow, mouse quiet bow will be quite deadly compared to a loud bow.