My next bow

ColonelSandersLite · February 08, 2015, 02:10:00 AM

I've got a couple sunny days coming up so I'll probably start this tomorrow.

So here's the layout:

Materials:
Red Oak Board
Hickory Board
Titebond 3
Leather Cord

Goals:
40-45# @ 26"
Try a hickory backing
Try heat treating.
Try Inducing a bit of reflex in the working portion to counteract string follow.
Try Incorporateing everything I learned from Roy and Jeff in this thread
Try a more elliptical tiller as per mikkekeswick's feedback on my last bow (was straight arc of a circle)
Don't overbuild the tips so dang much as per everyones feedback on my last bow.

Plan:
Tomorrow:
Get the last few things I need.
Thin everything down to the starting thickness.
Apply heat and bend into shape.
Cut the the hickory backing from the stock while the board cools.
Adjust my tillering tree.
Glue the backing and core together.

In 2-3 Days:
Finish Cutting out the shape of the bow.
Make and glue up tip overlays
Make and glue up the riser.

In about 10 Days (weather permitting):
Tiller the bow!

mikkekeswick · February 08, 2015, 02:25:00 AM

The hickory is really the wrong choice to back red oak. Just get a straight grained red oak board.
If you must use the hickory bear in mind that it is WAY stronger in tension compared to the red oaks compressional properties. You would be asking for a lot of set and or chrysals.
Even red oak by itself needs to be trapped to give the belly a chance. If treated right red oak will make really good bows.
As for your profile at the end of the working limbs you should make the transitions much more gradual, when done like this (like handle/limb fades) they will be carrying a lot of excess weight. To start make the levers 1 inch wide at their base with a straight taper to 1/2 at the tips. Also the levers only need to be 1/8th thicker for them not to bend and even this can be reduced during final tillering.
Also there is little point in heat treating a lam bow unless you know how thick the lams need to be pre glue up. Even then it's much better to just pick a good belly wood to start with.

ColonelSandersLite · February 08, 2015, 04:39:00 AM

I've done the research on it, there's a lot of hickory backed red oak bows out there. 3 rivers even sells one. I'm aware that the backing needs to be thin and the back should be trapped. Going in favor of this design is the very wide flat limbs which should reduce chrysal issues if I do my job as a bowyer correctly.

Now, I do know that there is still some risk mixing these materials like this. Truth is, the bigger risk to this bow at the moment is me making a major mistake. I got the best red oak board I could, but it's not super great and a strong backing is mandatory. Yes, I could have sought out a better more expensive piece of wood, but when you factor in the odds of me screwing up, the cost benefit analysis of doing that puts it way past the point of diminishing returns. It would be nice if this bow came out perfect and lasted a life time, but that is not in my realistic goal set at this time.

I would maybe go to 3/4" at the base of the levers, but 1" seems way too fat to me. Hell, the handle, where the stress is much higher, on my current bow (modified since its thread) is only a little over an inch thick. On my current bow I've also gone for 3/8" tips and that seems to be the butter zone to me, if not too thick still.

Also, I do have a pretty dang good idea how thick the limbs need to be since I've already made a fairly similar bow. Properly heat treated, the treating should extend quite a ways into the wood (i.e., not just scorching the surface). Sure, it won't be perfect and I know that I won't be able to apply more heat treatments during the tillering process since I'm going to glue up a backing, but it should help and also give me a bit of reflex at the very least.

Barry Winner · February 08, 2015, 09:13:00 AM

Well Colonel, it sounds like you know what you want to do. Let us know how it turns out.

mikkekeswick · February 11, 2015, 02:00:00 AM

Why ask questions if you already know the answers?!? I'm only trying to help! I've already made most of the mistakes your plans will bring you close to and your response shows me that you intend to go ahead and make them regardless. I'd like to think a few hundred wooden bows have taught me something....but maybe not eh

Indeed lets see how it turns out

I wish you the best of luck in your bow making journey.

Roy from Pa · February 11, 2015, 06:06:00 AM

I don't see any pictures of sawdust yet..

ColonelSandersLite · February 11, 2015, 04:50:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by mikkekeswick:
Why ask questions if you already know the answers?!?

I didn't ask a question. I said, here's what I'm doing, here's why, and here's how.

I don't question your experience. What I do question is your interpretation of my goals for this project. Even if this bow breaks before I reach full draw, I will have gained a lot of experience and knowledge regarding fundamental techniques used in making a bow and that is my true goal here.

ColonelSandersLite · February 11, 2015, 04:57:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
I don't see any pictures of sawdust yet..

Soon, I'm behind on this for a multitude of reasons. I've already learned a lot though.

For example, I've learned that my table saw blade is very dull. I've learned that my heat gun isn't powerful enough to do the job outside. At least not when the temp is in the mid 50s. I figured out a good way to make sure that I hit the right depth and everything is even when using a belt sander to do the initial thinning of the limbs. I've also been reminded yet again that nothing ever goes quite according to plan

.

Oh, one of the more useful things I learned (on an unrelated side project): JB weld doesn't stick to blue painters tape at all.

fujimo · February 11, 2015, 09:59:00 PM

ColonelSandersLite · February 12, 2015, 04:09:00 AM

Pretty much yeah. I could have just made up an excuse, but I'd rather be honest

.

Roy from Pa · February 12, 2015, 08:25:00 AM

Well that was an honest excuse. LOL

Black Mockingbird · February 12, 2015, 08:53:00 AM

Overbuilding can be a good thing,BUT taking it to far isn't. IMO that's grossly overbuilt for the stats your intending

ColonelSandersLite · February 12, 2015, 08:59:00 AM

Overbuilt in which sense?

Black Mockingbird · February 12, 2015, 10:13:00 AM

Length and working limb width

Sam Larson · February 12, 2015, 06:53:00 PM

Looking forward to seeing it!

Roy from Pa · February 12, 2015, 07:19:00 PM

Come on Pat.. Only 6 days left and no saw dust yet?

fujimo · February 13, 2015, 05:20:00 PM

he musta lost his gloves

maybe theyre in hova's sock draw

Roy from Pa · February 13, 2015, 05:43:00 PM

LOL

BenM · February 13, 2015, 07:48:00 PM

Been watching this one for that very reason. Too funny

Roy from Pa · February 13, 2015, 08:10:00 PM

Plan:
Tomorrow:
Get the last few things I need.
Thin everything down to the starting thickness.
Apply heat and bend into shape.
Cut the the hickory backing from the stock while the board cools.
Adjust my tillering tree.
Glue the backing and core together.

In 2-3 Days:
Finish Cutting out the shape of the bow.
Make and glue up tip overlays
Make and glue up the riser.

In about 10 Days (weather permitting):
Tiller the bow!

I love it when a plan comes together...