BBO(first) Build Question about Osage

[RRock]

I'm gonna give it a shot.

My first task is locating some Osage billets/slats and my first question is, What should I be looking for, flat sawn, quarter sawn or rift cut?

I do know that quarter sawn is stronger than flat sawn and rift cut is stronger than flat sawn?

So, if I looking for a bow to pull about 55#@27" and around 66" long, what kind of billet thickness should I be looking for in any of the above mentioned billets/slats?

from what I've seen here on the Bowyers Bench, you folks are building some pretty darn nice bows.

By the way which is it billets or slats I'm looking for?

Thanks folks and have a safe and healthy new year.

[okie64]

For a backed bow it doesnt really matter if its flat, rift or quarter sawn as long as the grain is fairly straight. 5/8" thick osage should be thick enough for belly lams but you could go thicker if you want to and that will give you more room to dial in your tiller.

[Pat B]

Check out primalneedsarchery   They have boo backed ipe blanks that will make you a sucessful bowyer in no time.

[RRock]

Thanks okie64.

Pat B, gotta try this from the beginning, can't learn anything if I don't. That's kinda how I'm built. Thanks for the info though.

[D]

I second Primal Needs..David there is a great guy and is always very helpful..

[Bowjunkie]

Dean Torges' Hunting the Bamboo Backed Bow DVD answers your questions through the process much better than we can answer them here. I highly recommend it.

I've used quarter, rift, and flat sawn and I prefer quarter and rift to flat. Just be mindful of pin knots in the quartersawn and riftsawn stuff.

The thickness of the slat, at time of glue-up, for a bow such as you've described needn't be any thicker than 1/2", in fact, it could be less, but 1/2" would give you a little wiggle room. With these bows though, you don't WANT too much wiggle room.

For your information: I have d/r bbo bows here whose osage is 1/2" thick, whose width at the widest point is a mere 1 1/8", 64" long ntn, and they are 70# @ 28".

If you're making a d/r type bow, there's no sense bending down a bunch of wood you're going to remove anyway... and in fact, doing so runs a higher risk of breakage as you clamp them into shape. On top of that, gluing-up with wood too thick can create unnecessary tillering difficulies later on... as you remove all that extra wood with the bamboo 'straining against it', the limbs can do some weird things. If you're making a straight bow however, you can glue-up any thickness of osage you want.

As Dean mentions in his video, the bulk of the work for these bows is best done prior to glue-up. This is the key to crafting/tillering these bows with the least hurdles and backtracking throughout the build. Things like... not gluing-up a lot more wood than you need, accurately and adequately prepping gluing surfaces, assuring good alignment, predetermining limb length and handle placement, and thicknessing(longitudinally AND laterally) and pretapering the osage and bamboo as evenly as possible... are some of the keys to the straightforward, successful building of these things.

[RRock]

Bowjunkie, Thanks for the response.

I do have Torge's DVD and have watched it, boy I don't know how many times. he sure makes it look easy. The first time I built a wood and canvas canoe I found that although the DVD's and books are great, there are always those little tricks of the trade that are hard to pick up. It's those kinds of mistakes I'm hoping to avoid.

Is there a reason the flat sawn osage is on the bottom of your list?

The bows with the 1/2 belly, are they rift or quarter sawn? I can understand how the quarter  sawn would be stronger thickness for thickness.

Could you explain how the handle thickness longitudinally and laterally come into play?

Thanks for your input, very good.

[PV]

Hey Matt- Happy New year.

Bowjunkie is spot on...
 
"Could you explain how the handle thickness longitudinally and laterally come into play?"


a glued on handle should be non bending. This determines the lenght. The belly wood needs to taper down in thickness after the fades in the handle to accomplish this. You want the limbs to start working(bending) down from the fades not into them like a glass bow.This can be accomplished by leaving the belly wood thick( which Bowjunkie pointed out can cause problems in an R/D) or a tapered lam over the handle between the belly and backing extending out beyond the fades in the handle.. I don't remember off hand if the bow you won a BQ had one. Being non bending the thickness of the handle can be whatever you want as it does not effect the working of the limbs.

"Is there a reason the flat sawn osage is on the bottom of your list?"

A BBO bow can be made from flat  but rift or quarter sawn usuallly results in a better bow. Less likely to fret or twist in my experience.
Better wood makes a better bow.

I haven't built any in a while(been playing with glass and carbon) but I'm sure I've got some osage in the shop. If you'd like I'll see what I've got that may help you get started on this slippery slope.....

Paul

[Roy from Pa]

BBO 1/4 sawn below.

[Tom Leemans]

If there are any unavoidable pin knots on the 1/4 or rift sawn, keep them next to the boo. I would build a straight reflex bow for your first one and definitely use a tillering gizmo. You have to get used to how the bow bends near the nodes. Watch that video again and don't be afraid to stop what you are doing to refer back to it.

[RRock]

Hey guys, thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.

Paul, Happy New Year right back at ya. How have you been doing? Long time no see.

Paul, I'm looking at the bow right now (pretty nice shooter I gotta say and wanting to build one of these is partly your doing)It looks like the Osage is rift cut and about 3/8" at the handle and tapering to about 1/4" at the nocks. At the handle right under the Boo there is an Osage wedge than a piece of Looks like Maple about a 16th of an inch that runs the full length of the bow right under the Boo. I can't see that the maple is tapered at all. This bow is 53#@28" which is pretty much what I'm looking for, maybe a couple pounds more while I can still pull it.

I noticed on the Torges DVD on one of his bows he didn't glue the handle on till after the Boo and osage was glued up. This might have been on the recurve, I'd have to double check on that. does that make a difference on how thw bow bends thru the handle or not. I'm guessing it has more to do with trying to get that much bend thru that area with that much wood there?

Tom, when you say a straight reflex bow, do you mean a bow with straight limbs and no reflex at all? I've seem two types of tillering gizmo's. One with the screws like in the DVD and one with no screws at all. I guess more eyeballing with the one without the screws and maybe not so easy to understand what it's telling you?

Again guy's thanks for all the help.  Matt

[PV]

The osage wedge (tapered short lamination) is there to keep the handle from bending Matt.A glued on handle has a tendency to pop off if bending too much. I wasn't tapering my mid lams when I built that one.

In Deans excellent video he uses the glued up blank as a template for shaping the handle where it glues up to the bow.

A straight reflex bow has no deflex like the bow in Torges's video but the tips are still glued into reflex.

Paul

IMO the best "gizmo" is Eric Krewson's design that uses a pencil in place of  screws.

[Tom Leemans]

PV answered it all for ya!

[RRock]

Yep, I can see one in the works sooner than later. Thanks guy's all the info is much appreciated.