My fourth bow (build-along), Crrrraaaaackkk

[Don Drake]

I will be starting my fourth bow this weekend.  The first three osage staves were only cured for about six months and I think that may be the reason they have a lot of set.(2-3 inches).

Also, I was using the long tiller string for the entire tillering process, so the tiller is off.  I made them whip ended, because I had it in my mind that they were supposed to be that way.

This stave is one I got of off E-bay for $10 plus shipping and handling (total cost about $25).  I am attaching some pictures of the stave.  It was hand split and cut in 2009, is 70" long, averages 2" thick and 2"wide.  Bark and sapwood have already been removed the back and ends pollied.

It has opposing twists at each end and one end has a reflex.

May current bows are 62"ntn, one is 65#@28 and the second is 75#@28.  I can pull the 75# to full draw but its near my current limit.  After having shot the 75# bow for a few months now, the 65# bow is no problem.  I would like to shoot for 65-70# for this new bow.

I am 6 feet tall.  Should I make the new bow 70" tip to tip or should I shorten it?  What are the advantages/disadvantages of a longer bow over a shorter bow?

Here are the pics

       

       

       

       

       

       

Thanks for all the help.

[don s]

you can keep the bow at 70" to start and if you come in under weight you can shorten to bring poundage up. a longer bow will draw smoother over a shorter one. string angle with a longer bow is less severe so finger pinch will be less of a problem. there are more things to consider and i'm sure others more qualified to answer will be along. don

[Cambow]

Great looking stave man... good luck!

[PEARL DRUMS]

I would suggest wider over longer with osage. Its heavy wood and if your limbs get too long they can get sluggish. Im 6' 1" with a 29" draw and have never built an osage bow longer that 65".

[okie64]

I made a 70" osage bow last winter and it shoots good. It didnt really need to be that long(I have a 28.5" draw) but I figured I'd try it and see what happened. It pulls really smooth with no stack but has a little bit of handshock  compared to shorter ones I've made. Osage is very elastic wood and doesnt really need extra length for performance. You could do what don said  and just cut it down a little at a time till you get it where you like it.

[Don Drake]

I was able to get some work done on the bow Saturday and Monday.

I started chasing the growth ring.  I need to get through one layer of polyurethane and down to the third latewood ring.

In the first pics, I am using a draw knife on the upper rings.

 

 

In these pics, I am using a rounded cabinet scrapper on the final layer of early wood.

 

   

Here is a picture of an island of early wood and upper layers not yet removed.



Picture showing the stave after removing the island of early wood.



Thanks guys,  I will post more as things progress.

[fish n chicks]

Very awesome information Don! Thank you and keep it coming for us newbies please. This is great stuff.

[don s]

your pictures and the way you label them are really helpful. i especially like the way you included all the layers you need to get thru all in one picture. very informative. don

[JSMOFFITT03]

Great thread Don...  

Hopefully, work schedule permiting I will be able to update my thread on my daughters bow build.....

Great way to lable the pics as well....

[Don Drake]

Thanks for the comments so far.  I thought I would include a pic of the end of the stave showing my target ring.

[Stingray45]

Great pictures Don. Wish these would have been up a while ago when I was first learning to chase a ring haha. Had some trouble learning on hickory, wasn't until I tried an osage stave that I really figured out what I was doing because you can really tell the difference. Good luck with your bow. Something you could try for the smoother shooting if you leave your bow long you could flip the tips and that will help a bit, should also help pick up some speed.

[Don Drake]

My goal is to finish chasing the ring and at least sketch out the bow tonight.

On my previous three bows, when I finished chasing the ring, I jumped right in to sketching the bow and carving it out with little thought as to how I should orient the bow.  

Now I have two questions: First, which end should I make the upper limb and second, should I try to heat and bend the reflex out of the "left" end of the stave, shown in the third picture above?  If I don't straighten it out, I know I will have tillering questions.

I know I will have to heat the stave and bend out the opposing twists on both ends.

Are the pictures detailed enough for youse guys to make a suggestion on the upper limb?

Thanks in advance and I will post more pictures from my efforts tonight.

[Art B]

Good decision to stop and give some thought to which end should be which Don. Most folks don't think or even consider wood as having unequal working properties from end to end. There's a very good reason why seasoned bowyers prefer matching sister billets for their bows.

Staves often have very different working properties from end to end and can create tillering headaches for beginners. But if you know and can predict which end will be stronger then you can use that to your advantage.

Some will say it makes no difference which end is which, just tiller it out. For the most part, they're correct. And in the end, build their bows with equal length limbs and swap ends as the bow dictates for best performance. Nothing wrong with that.

But predictability is an advantage. Predetermined upper and lower limb is one. As in cutting in a shelf. Longer upper limb is another one. Recurving tips where more than likely one end will be harder to recurve than the other. And I'm sure there's others I've long forgotten.

So my preference is build bows "as they stand in the trees". Easy to figure out, thickest growth rings at the stump end........Art

[Don Drake]

Thanks Art, so one idea is to make the end with the thicker rings the bottom limb.

[Art B]

That's how I do mine Don. Trees just naturally grow cleaner at their stump end which also adds to the durability of the lower limb. I've never had a lower limb break on a stave bow even though it receives the greater strain from my split finger draw. Got a few battle scars for the upper limb though. And my head is harder than you know what  :eek:  ....Art

[SEMO_HUNTER]

Originally posted by PEARL DRUMS:
I would suggest wider over longer with osage. Its heavy wood and if your limbs get too long they can get sluggish. Im 6' 1" with a 29" draw and have never built an osage bow longer that 65".

Same here and I actually like mine a bit on the shorter side around 60-62" max. I can't stand to shoot a bow that's over 62" long, it feels like a kayak paddle in my hands more so than a bow.

If you stayed with 62-64" you will hit your draw length and draw wt. just fine I would think.

[Don Drake]

I got the bow roughed out last night.  About the length, I already have two bows that are 64" nock to nock, so I thought I would try this one at 68".  Al Herrin suggests that that is a good length to maximize efficiency and reduce stress on the limbs.  

I also decided to make the trunk end of the stave the bottom limb.  Seems like I read somewhere that someone tried to make a bow with the trunk end as the upper limb and the thing wouldn't shoot straight unless he hung upside down from a tree!!

After I chased the ring.  I found the center of the stave and marked that spot.



Next, I marked the stave four inches each end of center.  These marks indicate where the fades will end.  The next mark is 3" down from center to mark the beginning of the lower limb fade.  Then, I marked 1.25" above center to mark the arrow rest and the beginning of the upper limb fade.



Next, I began making marks for the center line of the bow by measuring its width at various intervals and marking the center points.





Then I connected the dots from tip to tip.





I then decided how wide I wanted the handle (1.25") and the limbs, divided those widths in half and then measured on either side of the center line and sketched out the bow.

[Don Drake]

With the bow sketched out, I took my trusty draw knife and roughed out the bow.  Sorry, no pix, no one was home to hold the cell phone!

Here is the roughed out bow.







I meant to get a picture of the bow sitting on its belly to show the bend in the upper arm.  I will need advice on whether to heat it up and bend it out (i usually heat the bow in boiling water to bend) or to tiller it out.  I am not sure how to handle that.  I will have to heat the limbs out take out some twist in each limb though.

Thanks again guys.

[Adam Keiper]

Looks good.  How wide are your limbs?  They look like 1-3/8", which should work well for that length.  In regards to straightening, I like to floor tiller the bow before grabbing the heat gun.  I do my straightening when the limbs are thin enough to almost (or barely) be able to string the bow for the first time.  Thinner wood bends more easily than thick, and straightening at that point still allows plenty of room for further tillering.

Just a couple other suggestions on your procedure, if I may.  When you lay out the centerline, consider using a pencil to trace the entire length of the actual grain, rather than marking the stave's center.  Osage seldom to never splits perfectly true, and the latter method will likely result in a bow with grain runout.  It's actually fairly common to find the grain runs diagonally across a stave when pencilling the centerline.  Pencil tracing also allows you to follow all the wiggles and undulations in the grain.  

The other suggestion is just a time saver.  Instead of painstakingly scraping the entire bow back right off the bat, I draw knife down to follow the next ring above the one I want for the bow back.  I drawknife only somewhat carefully to keep my work within the same ring, but it's usually somewhat uneven and with nicks.  Since that ring may only be 1/16" above the one you want for the back, its grain should mimic the grain in the growth ring beneath.  Next, I lay out the bow and trim the edges to final width on the "rough" ring.  THEN, I go back and chase/scrape the final growth ring, spending tedious time removing exactly what is needed for the actual bow back and no more.  This works very well on fairly clean staves.  On staves with alot of wiggles or snake, there may be enough grain difference between those 2 rings that you don't want to do this, though.  You can still do a rough ring chase, rough/fat layout and trim, and then scrape the final ring with just a little extra width in case the grain shifts.

[Don Drake]

I thought I would try something different this time and use a hand-held hacksaw to cut in the fades and then use the draw knife to strip away the belly wood up to the fades.  I thought it might make a nicer-looking fade.

Problem is, I cut the upper limb fade too deep and the limb was less than 1/2 inch at the fade. I shaved the belly limb down to floor tiller thickness.  The middle of the limb was thicker than the fade when I tried to floor tiller it.  The result wasn't good!!!      



Also, I just noticed from the pic that I cut the short fade on the upper limb instead of the lower one.  

Oh well, ya git inna hurry and things go bad.

Waiting on two more two year old staves which should be here by month end. I'll start again.

Lib and lern.  

I made a crack on another post that I hadn't broken a bow yet!!  Guess I jinxed myself.