HH bug got me ... Part One!

[darin putman]

Brian 65-70 spine, 125 grain up front almost 29" Bop. Just got em bareshafted yesterday,need to build a few more now. I do a lot of stumping untill the chiggars come out surewoods one tough shaft!!!

[Brianlocal3]

Sweet, thanks

[canopyboy]

Bowyer question that started to bother me once I looked at the different bows at the hog hunt.  I think I'll post on the bench too, but wanted to get thoughts on this thread as well since it's Hill style bows I'm concerned about.  (Skip the big paragraphs if you want me to get to the point.)

Trapping the limbs.  Doing it on wooden bows means reducing the width of the bow on the back to make a trapezoidal cross section.  The idea is that wood is stronger in tension than compression.  A rectangular section has a neutral axis at the mid point, putting the back and belly fibers at the same stress, even though the belly will start to fail at a lower stress.  Reducing the back starts to move the neutral axis towards the belly, which increases the stress at the back fibers compared to the belly fibers.  This brings those stresses into better balance relative to their respective limits.  

In short, trapping the back gives you a better balanced and more efficient bow limb when the compression strength is less than the tension strength.

Now I noticed that a couple of the Hill bows built by Dave Miller and John Schulz in particular were significantly trapped (back) in the same manner.  In comparison Craig's bows are rectangular, and Nate's bows seem to have semicircular sides almost.

However, in a fiberglass bow, the majority of the stress is carried in the glass as it is the outer fiber and has a higher modulus of elasticity than cane or wood.  Fiberglass in general actually has the opposite problem compared to wood.  A highly oriented type we have researched at work has the following properties and is indicative with the trends of all glass composites.  This particular type has a yield strength of 52,000 psi in tention, but 59,200 psi in compression.  Looking through a bunch more samples and data that 10-15% increase in compression strength is the standard.  (Carbon however, is the opposite, with tensile strength being about 50% greater than compressive.)

So theoretically, a glass lam bow should have a trapped belly if anything for improved efficiency based on engineering principles.  The effect of the wood core may negate this slightly, so I could see a rectangular cross section being close to optimum.

So my question is, why would anyone trap a glass laminated bow, especially trap the back?  The only reason I can come up with is it works with wood, so people feel it must help with glass.

[Rossco7002]

My glassed Schulz has a trapped profile and my split bamboo is not - I'm guessing John altered the limb design between the two for some reason (probably similar to your ideas highlighted above).

The trapped Schulz is a very fast and shock free bow I can say that.

I have played around with the amount of trap and even with revirse trap. My Schulz Legend 66"and 64#@26&1/4", is belly trapped very slim at the tips, soft in the hand with a 16 strand B50 string and very very fast considering the 26" draw comparative parameter. The one reason that I had a string follow for only two weeks, the arrow speed difference was just too much for me to cope with. I have nearly equaled it for speed and surpassed it for a smooth draw at 26" with a 68" 58@26" HalfBreed from a blank that is not trapped in the belly. I slightly tapered the glass and got a magical bow that still shows no signs of wear after thousands and thousands of shots.  I think the feel of the bow has more to with the limb action than the exact limb shape. Niether of these bows are for sale at any price, don't ask.

[LongStick64]

I seem to be able to shoot Hill style bows with small tips better than bows with larger tips. I could never seem to do well with a HHA bow but using a Shrew Hill and my new Northern Mist Classic and I seem to be getting much better performance. The HHA bows feel bulkier in comparison.

[Brianlocal3]

The thread was on page two so i figured some pics were in order.



here is the Vixen with a quiver full of arrows and my new glove, the BW stick tight super.  Ill tell you more about that glove later.



Oh and here is a new vixen. Not mine but the guy who got it asked if id post the pics in his thread so I did.  Plus, I think they belong here.

[Brianlocal3]

The black widow stick tight glove is what I ordered.  I have been wanting a new glove, one with more protection than the standard bear paw classic I was shooting so I started researching.  I have shot the AL big shot and the Crossover and like them both.  Then I was going to get a Hill deluxe but all the stories of them flying off with every shot had me looking else ware.  I was hesitant about dropping 45-60 bucks on the AL if it didn't work out and I came across the BW stick tight super.  

This glove is fantastic!!!!! Thick, good quality leather with nylon overlays like the Big shot, and double straps on each stall to keep them in place with a nice wrist strap and they are ONLY $20.  So I ordered one and it was stiff as expected at first arrival but I put some conditioner on it and shot it a little for two nights and thats all it took. The thing just forms to the hand and give a fantastic release.  This thing should last a long long time by the construction of it.  It offers superior protection also.  I am now going to order a second one so i can get it broke in also and have a spare for, not if but when, I mis place my other one.  If any of you are in the market for a new glove but like me don't want to drop the money on a Big shot, seriously look at the Stick Tight.

[soap creek]

I've been eyeing the stick tight glove as well. Its good to hear your take on it Brian. Might have to give that one a try. Hopefully before long I'll be breaking a new glove and a new Vixen in at the same time.

[Brianlocal3]

That is great Greg. Nothing better.

[akbowbender]

Sounds like a nice glove Brian. I have a good inventory of gloves  and tabs right now, but if I need something else in the future, I might just have to give the BW glove a try.

Made a discovery today about what how my Misty Dawn like it's arrows to be nocked. I have been shooting them with the cock feather out like I shoot my NM Classic. Seemed like the thing to do, but even though my bare shafts shot nicely out of it, the feathered arrows wobbled down to the target most of the time. Just for the heck of it, I shot with the cock feather in. Son-of-a-gun, I got great arrow flight! Tried cock in on the NM...no dice. Must be out.

Now I'm in a fix. Do I keep both bows and live with the difference, or do I sell one or the other and get a new bow that matches the one I keep. I like both bows, but a 68" Shelton would make a nice mate for the Classic, while a Vixen with black glass would look nice alongside the Misty Dawn.

I know what you'd do, Brian!

P.S. Just had a thought: I wonder if I went to 4-fletch I'd get good flight out of both bows. Any thoughts on this one?

[Brianlocal3]

I don't know Chuck, but your right, you know what I'd do!  I have heard it said if it flys good cock festher in then it could be a stuff arrow? I'm not sure of that.  If you have the ability to fletch if try a four fletch just for the heck of it

[Rossco7002]

I saw one of those Widow gloves at the Hog Hunt. Looked like a great option (especially when you look at the price) for those that shoot a glove rather than tab.

[Ralphie]

Originally posted by Brianlocal3:
The black widow stick tight glove is what I ordered.  I have been wanting a new glove, one with more protection than the standard bear paw classic I was shooting so I started researching.  I have shot the AL big shot and the Crossover and like them both.  Then I was going to get a Hill deluxe but all the stories of them flying off with every shot had me looking else ware.  I was hesitant about dropping 45-60 bucks on the AL if it didn't work out and I came across the BW stick tight super.  

This glove is fantastic!!!!! Thick, good quality leather with nylon overlays like the Big shot, and double straps on each stall to keep them in place with a nice wrist strap and they are ONLY $20.  So I ordered one and it was stiff as expected at first arrival but I put some conditioner on it and shot it a little for two nights and thats all it took. The thing just forms to the hand and give a fantastic release.  This thing should last a long long time by the construction of it.  It offers superior protection also.  I am now going to order a second one so i can get it broke in also and have a spare for, not if but when, I mis place my other one.  If any of you are in the market for a new glove but like me don't want to drop the money on a Big shot, seriously look at the Stick Tight.

I am always amazed at how different archery things work for different people.
I bought a Stick Tight glove and was not happy.
The Berlin-style deerskin glove from Raptor Archery works perfect .... for me.

What works for one person well, seems to mean just that, and only that.

I am glad there is the classifieds so we can re cycle our tackle ...... on that long road to the perfect kit in the sky.

[Brianlocal3]

Ralphie,
I have the deerskin glove too. I actually shoot better with it right now, but it's what I'm use to. My only complaint is finger soreness. I love love love the release I get from it, I just get sore fingers after a long 3d round . It's a great glove

[Ralphie]

True, true, friends I have recommended the deerskin to have also told me finger soreness is an issue. It never seems to bother me. I like feeling the string.
But for the price .... if the BW does work .... and it works for a lot of people .. it is the buy of the century.
ralph

[akbowbender]

Brian: Found this discussion about shooting the cock feather in:  http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=076546;p=1

Someone noted that it allowed lowering the nocking point. Right now, the nocking point on my Misty Dawn is at 3/16" (I nock above the nocking point.)

On my Classic, it's at 5/16". Might try lowering it and see if It straightens out my arrow flight with cock feather in.

[Brianlocal3]

Outstanding Chuck. Best if luck in that ad keep us posted

[toddster]

anyone else been having problem with index finger?  here lately been developing a callous and tearing skin on bottom of finger by my nail.  Thought is was the glove (american leather) switched, then thought it was me "biting" down on the arrow nock, but not it, any idea's?

[Rossco7002]

I had that problem too todd - it was caused by shooting too much (i.e. heavy bow, 100 arrows a day, everyday). Once I switched to every second day and cut the callous off with a knife didn't come back.