Those fades look short and the ramp very steep. You might try using a French curve to achieve a less acute angle on your riser.

Quote from: Flem on January 05, 2021, 12:27:11 AM
Those fades look short and the ramp very steep. You might try using a French curve to achieve a less acute angle on your riser.

x2
The fades need to be longer each side and less steep 

Make a lam 4" longer than the riser, .125 thick and taper like this.
use 2 tooth picks to dowel the lam to the riser (so it dose not slide) and you will be good, the first 1' will bend and part of the 2nd " will bend too

Quote from: williwaw on January 05, 2021, 12:22:11 AMlooking good!

Thanks

Quote from: williwaw on January 05, 2021, 12:22:11 AM
Deflexing the belly lam before glueup, but reflexing the backing? What profile are you hoping it will be when it's time to tiller?

If it all goes as planned the final profile will be reflexed with the nocks ~2" forward of the handle. By deflexing first, then reflexing when the backing is added I am getting a much larger Perry Reflex effect without ending up with a huge amount of finished reflex that makes it tough to string and overstrains the backing.

I am deflexing the nocks ~6" behind the handle on the form (the final amount will depend how much spring back I get off the form), then pulling them forward to ~3.75" of reflex on the second form. To get that much preload with a flat belly lam I would need to pull the bow into 9+" of reflex when gluing the backing on. That is sinew backed bow territory and more than the backing wood could survive. If it did manage to survive it would be tricky to final tiller and would be nasty to get a string onto.

Quote from: Flem on January 05, 2021, 12:27:11 AM
Those fades look short and the ramp very steep. You might try using a French curve to achieve a less acute angle on your riser.

The fades aren't as short as you think, but I can look at making them longer next time. No french curves required, they are drawn in CAD and accurately printed onto a template, but suffered where I had to freehand the last of the taper due to not having a profile sander. I made a pattern for the riser and used a flush trim bit in my router to cut the ramps and into the fades, but had to leave material at the ends and finish the taper by hand on my belt sander. The hand work is where the problems are.

The ramp is working out to be a bit steep and I will be changing that on my next bow.

Quote from: Mad Max on January 05, 2021, 07:00:16 AM
Make a lam 4" longer than the riser, .125 thick and taper like this.

I can't do that now, the stack is already completely designed to final thickness (like a FG bow). If I add a lam it will alter everything in the design.

I think I will be doing the next bow as you describe, it seems like an easier way to get the fine taper right to nothing off the end of the riser block until I work out a profile grinder of some sort. Now that I have the thickness sander working OK I know I can taper a lam to nothing with no problems.


Mark

Forget the CAD, you need BAD= Bow aided design
I don't think the computer program knows you are building an artificially stressed design.

Quote from: Mad Max on January 04, 2021, 08:30:50 AM
Titebond lll

   I am not crazy about TB III...  Every time I bought it, it seemed too thick and was also lumpy...  I have glued up some outdoor wood things with TB II and no finish and they are holding up just fine...  Plus TB III is darker and and is easier to see the glue joints...  As long as you finish your bow well you should never have any issues with TB II...

Quote from: Mad Max on January 05, 2021, 07:00:16 AM
Make a lam 4" longer than the riser, .125 thick and taper like this.

After further consideration and discussion with others, were you thinking I should take 1/8" off the bottom of the riser and replace it with the extra lam or just add the lam into the stack? It might work if I cut the riser down by the same amount the lam adds. I will have to take a look at the riser and see if I think I can get it cut accurately enough. Tapering a lam to zero on the ends would be way easier than feathering the fades by hand as I am doing at the moment.

Quote from: Flem on January 05, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Forget the CAD, you need BAD= Bow aided design

Nice. You should copyright that quick before someone steals it.

Quote from: Flem on January 05, 2021, 11:42:10 AMI don't think the computer program knows you are building an artificially stressed design.

That doesn't affect the design in this case. All the Perry reflex is doing is reducing belly stresses, hopefully minimizing any set. This is very much an experiment and I am not too worried about my final draw weight. I have a target in mind, but part of the experiment is seeing how well the software predicts the final results.

You may not believe it, but the fades are very carefully designed. Where I have dropped the ball was in my execution of the design. If I can make Mark's lam modification work out then I will go that way to get nicely feathered fades.


Mark

mmattockx---forget the 4" longer
Just glue on a lam 2" longer than your riser, to the riser.
reshape the fades, done

Shreddyyy I wet the lams wif water so they would bend easer , it needed TB lll for wet wood

Quote from: Mad Max on January 05, 2021, 04:04:43 PM

Just glue on a lam 2" longer than your riser, to the riser.
reshape the fades, done

MM,
I think mm's  question was how to proceed without a profile sander. I have been following along to see if there are alternative methods. I was recently looking at the wightman page with various HH bows. Does anyone know about earlier methods to shape ramps with thin runouts?

Spindle sander, sanding drum on drill press, pulley on end of edge sander, pulley on belt sander or grinder, or sandpaper wrapped around 2" PVC pipe. Just about anything with a round profile you can get abrasives on will work.

  Matock...  Don't listen to them guys...  If you do you could be missing out on the adventures and excitement of a two-piece, or possibly a 3 piece bow...   

I glued on some underlays and Horn tips


Going to brace it tomorrow


Here is the  two together.
The top one is the one that delaminated.
and the bottom one has reflex in the last 7"

Quote from: Flem on January 05, 2021, 06:56:24 PM
Spindle sander, sanding drum on drill press, pulley on end of edge sander, pulley on belt sander or grinder, or sandpaper wrapped around 2" PVC pipe. Just about anything with a round profile you can get abrasives on will work.

X2
No profile sander here.
Sanding drum on drill press to get close and finish with hand sanding. I don't trust myself with power tools when finishing fades to paper thin.

Quote from: Bvas on January 05, 2021, 08:42:42 PM

Quote from: Flem on January 05, 2021, 06:56:24 PM
Spindle sander, sanding drum on drill press, pulley on end of edge sander, pulley on belt sander or grinder, or sandpaper wrapped around 2" PVC pipe. Just about anything with a round profile you can get abrasives on will work.

X2
No profile sander here.
Sanding drum on drill press to get close and finish with hand sanding. I don't trust myself with power tools when finishing fades to paper thin.

x2

My daughter and I shot our bows at 12:15 AM New Year's. Then we went out again in the afternoon and shot again. Jawge

Making memories with your child...   Good Stuff...

Nice save, so far, Mark. The newest edition looks better than the original. Fingers Crossed. 

Hope it holds together, Mark.

George sounds like fun...

Quote from: Pat B on January 06, 2021, 09:54:08 AM
Nice save, so far, Mark. The newest edition looks better than the original. Fingers Crossed. 

I like the look of it too

Yeah, thats a sweet looking bow, hope it holds together for you after all the work you have put into it.
Going to video the stringing for us?

Quote from: Flem on January 06, 2021, 11:24:06 AM
Yeah, thats a sweet looking bow, hope it holds together for you after all the work you have put into it.
Going to video the stringing for us?

You have to Like/Ring bell/Subscribe all that $h1t

https://youtu.be/rs1jPua-Mko