Worked up a set of dark timbers for my super kodiak. Here's the specs....50# bow and the arrows are 500's cut to 31. I bareshafted them and they fly nice.  A little nock high but increased brace height and all good. 

So I can add a length of hospital oxygen tubing and increase the weight from 488 to 668.  Arrow flight is not much different....slower at 30 but not noticeable at 15. 

I typically shoot heavy arrows at 600+ and usually shoot through most game animals.  Just thought I'd get others thoughts on this....
Tim B

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I'm not the most experienced trad hunter...
but...I'd say somewhere in the middle would be best for what I do...I like about 12 grains/# myself.
I feel the lighter ones are a little too light...they'd work fine I'm sure on deer sized game..but I bet the heavier ones feel better on the shot.
If I had to choose between the two...I'd go with the heavier ones and learn the trajectory.

Both will work! The heavier ones will have greater momentum, and get better penetration on bigger, thicker critters. The 668gr arrow is over 13gpp, and that is very heavy, and I would think, very slow. I would ditch the tubing, and maybe try a 50gr or 100gr insert. By adding the weight up front, you will probably have to shorten the shaft just a bit, but you will also increase FOC!!!!

JMHO

Bisch

I like heavier. Bow is quieter, and I in practice I can see the arrows trajectory better. For the way I shoot, I think it helps my brain get on track with holdover and whatnot. Stupid I know, but works for me.

Moderation may be the best combination. Excessive weight will be slow with a difficult trajectory, and too light may lack penetration. I agree with Zradix that somewhere in the middle (with perhaps a slight increase in weight). I hunt mostly deer so 10 gpi works fine for me. Bigger, tougher game may need a bit more weight. Just find what works best with your equipment.

I would go for the 488 over the heavier shaft to much of a rainbow trajectory will end up in a miss or wounded game . Your not going to gain that much penetration with that weight over the faster arrow with a 50lb. bow . Ive shot some pretty big animals with 500 gr. and slightly less with 50 lb. bows and got great penetration . I've said this before penetration is not an issue on North American game as long as you use equipment that is within reason .
   I think Bisch is right if you think you need more weight use a 50gr. brass insert . 

At one time I used fish tank plastic tubing to increase the weight of my carbon shafts.  Had a lot of problems with the tubing popping my nocks out upon impact.  I think a much better approach for increasing weight is to use heavy point inserts and/or heavy broadhead adapters.  This will also increase your FOC which I think is a good thing for penetration.

I'm not a fan of the tubing because while it adds mass, it's along the entire shaft and that's not really where you want the weight.

I'm kind of in there right now because I've got arrows that are lighter than I'm used to (9gpp), but they're really fast and fly like darts.  In real life, a 480gr traveling at 190fps with a sharp broadhead will kill pretty much anything including elk...but my gut says to add more weight (the trick is whether it's REALLY my gut or just habit).

I've got some heavy woods that clock in at around 700gr, but they're NOTICEABLY slower.  Like even the naked eye can see the difference, so I'm going with lighter myself and seeing what happens!


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668 is overkill in my book and if you can get into the low 500s, you're golden. Flatter trajectory will really help you improve your groups at longer ranges.

By estimating that you were using a 200 gn point...A Black Eagle Carnivore 400 would be a viable option...100 gn insert...250 gn point...~29 5/8 length...~573 total...~11.5 gpp...~29.6 EFOC

There have been studies regarding white tail deer reaction time to shot noise, they are inhumanly fast. Speed isnt something you should just throw away as being irrelevant. Doesnt matter how heavy that arrow is if its a high shot.

http://www.fullpotentialoutdoors.com/deer-reaction-time-jumping-string/

400s with heavier points/inserts will probably make you a nicer arrow.
Tedd

I agree with Bisch.  FOC is more important than total weight. 50 gr inserts depending on the weight of head your using.

All good input boys- thanks
Tim B

Well I tried to post pictures by changing every size that I have but it won't post....ANYWAY....I'm in the heavy arrow camp. My buddy Bill Terry took a bear with a 28" 1200 grain fish arrow two weeks ago on a hunt that we were on in New Brunswick. It was his 360th big game animal taken with traditional equipment

Quote from: FoCoBlackWidow on June 12, 2019, 06:06:58 PM
668 is overkill in my book and if you can get into the low 500s, you're golden. Flatter trajectory will really help you improve your groups at longer ranges.

It's a law of diminishing returns.  After a certain point, the lethality of an arrow sort of flattens out.  Dead is dead and if it penetrates the vitals, that's what happens.  As long as it can deal with a bone or two, it doesn't matter if it's 500gr or 5000gr.

There's a massive trade off when you increase weight in speed and trajectory.  An extra 150gr is great...but is it more effective when you bring the loss of velocity and arrow drop?

I have some 700gr woodies that hit like freight trains...but the actual penetration difference from my 500gr carbons is negligible.  What's not negligible is the speed and drop at 20yds (I almost never shoot live animals past 20yds).


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Hey Tim.
I'm in the middle camp also. I have made up quite a few arrows in the 650-700 range and they shoot great. I'm shooting 53 # and have moved back down to the 550-575 range. I feel these give me a lot better trajectory and good penetration also.

Richard Petty always said "FASTER" is better.

Quote from: blacktailbob on June 13, 2019, 01:31:24 PM
Richard Petty always said "FASTER" is better.

Bullets don't weigh much at all...


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