all that matters most is yer consistent accuracy under hunt conditions.  the rest is just something to talk about when we're not hunting.

Quote from: mec lineman on July 31, 2018, 08:27:39 AM
Please no disrespect to be taken, but why all the recent discussions about compound bows. Remember this is a Tradition bowhunting forum. I understand that it is just comparison talk, but it will ultimately lead to removal of the thread.

None taken.  Just comparing an arrow at 204fps out of a recurve vs ro an arrow at 212  out of an old compound energy wise won't be far off yet somehow it's considered apples and oranges. 
My set up shoots great, well tuned and fp/bh shoot same point of aim but I'm just over 8.4gpp.  Foc is a out 15%.  For Texas whitetail and pigs I think I should be good.   Most importantly I have to do my part and put it in the right spot.

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I prefer heavier within reason. And heavier also means quieter.  Of course it also depends on the game and distances. Open terrain out west will require a hunter to be more proficient than someone hunting thick cover. So I'd go a little lighter to improve trajectory if i was hunting something like pronghorn vs. Whitetails in a thick swamp.

Out here in the open corn barrens, where bucks can be 5 miles distance from one day to the next and the occasional mid-field terrace is called cover, a bit of speed doesn't hurt and a bit of accuracy past 25 yards doesn't hurt either.

I lean towards the heavy side myself , seems to work for me..

,,Sam,,

Hunt within your effective hunting range...acknowledge the ever changing effective range within the given circumstances...make the shot and neither arrow will kill a deer deader than the other.

Quote from: Trenton G. on July 30, 2018, 02:55:10 PM
I listed to that one as well. It was really good. If you listen to the one where they talk to Rick Duggan, he talks about completing the super slam with a 475 grain arrow from a 58 pound bow. Makes you wonder...

I recently listened to both of those podcasts.  Interesting for sure and it got me thinking about doing a little experimenting myself

I would probably pick the lighter one if shooting over twenty yards especially if you're not shooting at anything bigger than a deer. Twenty yards seems to be about the point where I can see a big difference between arrow speeds POI!

There is only one answer and that is predicated upon the foundation of your own established confidence.

This debate is no infant and will continue and continue to be chewed upon well into the future.

Well and enough said.

I spent some time tuning some carbon arrows to my longbow.  I was able to get 340's and 400's to tune very well to my bow.  One shaft was longer though which gave it more weight.  I don't remember the exact weight.  I also tuned them both using 200 grain tips.

At the end I had one arrow shaft longer and heavier as well as one that was shorter and lighter (just shy of 9gpp).  I had quite the mental road block trying to determine which arrow I would use for an upcoming bear hunt.  I opted for the shorter/lighter arrow given that it had more FOC than the longer/heavier one.

Now the differences were minimal.  There isn't that big a difference in weight, length and FOC.  But I tried to build an arrow for that shot I mess up on.  I'm shooting 200 grain single bevel broad heads.  I was successful on my bear hunt btw.  And the arrow passed though the bear lodging itself in the off side shoulder blade.

-Jeremy

Speed or Energy??? I want as much of both as I can get. 

That being said there are always compromises/trade offs.  Even your "light" arrow is over 10 gpp.  Shoot whichever one you have the most confidence in. 

Quote from: Hermon on August 01, 2018, 09:19:44 AM
Speed or Energy??? I want as much of both as I can get. 

That being said there are always compromises/trade offs.  Even your "light" arrow is over 10 gpp.  Shoot whichever one you have the most confidence in.

I agree. The 550 gr is still above 10 gpi, which is plenty for most critters.
I think most trad shooters would agree that keeping the FOC high also pays out, especially at longer distances.

I shoot a 72# bow with a 575gr arrow. This combo is just perfect for me. It gives me a bit of everything but most important "confidence". The biggest game I hunt is whitetails and I've never had any issues with penetration, if I ever do I would up the anty in a heartbeat. The flat trajectory is the big seller for me. My logic is if 400 gr is praised by a guy shooting a 40lb bow how can my 575gr be in the wrong. Bow is quiet and it just plain works for what I do.

My hunting bows are 49 to 55#.  Hunting arrows weigh in the 550 to 600 grains. 

I shot a nice bear with a 48# bow last year with complete pass through, so I started off this year thinking I would use a 49# stickflinger.

Then I was talking with Glenn Hermon and he agreed to trade a set of 55# limbs to me.  Glad I did that, as I like the trajectory better even though it is only 5# difference.  I dont shoot much beyond 20 yards,  but it seems quite noticable to me.

10-11 grains per pound is about perfect in my opinion.  Especially when shooting over 50 pounds.  That setup would work for elk and moose as well.

Mike

Ok, nerd alert!  The question isn't really about speed vs. energy because an arrow's energy is a function of it's speed.  Actually it's not even a question of bow weight (bow weight does affect speed and energy but some bows of the same poundage can shoot harder/faster than others due to design...so it's an inconsistent variable) or momentum (momentum relates mostly to a fixed arrow velocity and it's mass...hard to quantify on an object that slows down quickly as it moves to it's end).  It makes more sense to use kinetic energy (a measure of the energy of an object in motion) as a yardstick, even though that isn't perfect either.  Still, a bow/arrow combo that delivers at least 30 ft. lbs. of K.E. should work pretty well for deer-sized critters, a broad guesstimate based on what seems to work in the real world for most bowhunters.  The problem comes when folks get into the mindset that very light arrows shot from very light bows are great for target shooting so they must be ok for big game because the arrows seem to fly pretty fast.  That MAY work...but only as long as the K.E. for an on-the-edge bow/arrow combo is enough to overcome the penetration roadblocks posed by less-than-perfect hits (bones and scapulas are alot harder to penetrate than soft lungs...doh). 

So, for a bit of insurance in the event, however remote it might be, that we all don't make perfect hits all the time, it's best to stay away from 'ultralight' bowhunting tackle for bigger critters.  It might work fine for perfect lung hits on stationary animals but for the average shooter under average hunting conditions that isn't always what happens.  So, why risk it? 

I suppose a better way to say this is, why not just let common sense have it's day.

No matter what your weighs it is absolutely critical that your broadhead is razor sharp. I also prefer cut on contacts.

Assuming the same size fletching, lighter arrows are more affected by drag than heavier arrows. Dan Quillian insisted that in flight shooting, a heavier head on the same arrow would fly farther. I never tested to see if he was right, but he was very rarely wrong on anything to do with archery. I like arrows to be heavier, because they don't react as much as lighter ones to flubs in the release or other aspects of form in a hunting situation.

I think with arrows, there's a point of diminishing returns. "Middle of the road" seems to work best for me. Between 9-11 gpp has always worked for me, with decent cast/trajectory and penetration. The rig I'll carry to start off the whitetail season with this year is shooting a 9.8 gpp arrow perfectly, nice speed with still enough weight to penetrate decently.