I am a little confused on layout. I have drawn 2 handle designs easier for me to do then for me trying to explain. Both (A) and (B) have same 4" handles, 2" fades,and 68" long. My question is, what is the differences? When do you use (A) or (B) or is it a preference? I like the way handle (A) is laid out you grip at center and 1" above is in a comfortable location but don't understand way lower limb is shorter is this for positive tiller? Then riser (B) dead center makes limbs equal but makes arrow locater 1 1/2" plus above true center and hand feels a little cramped. Do you just fudge handle and arrow locater between fades? Thanks for your help, Crgibson

Center your handle at the center of the bow. Use B.

Either design will fuction properly, IF you grip each design correctly.

If you think in terms of your limbs starting dead center of the bow, then both A and B have the same length limbs.

Drawing A would require a straight wrist grip to properly balance limb strain w/equal mass.

Drawing B would require a little more hand contact to balance out the limbs.

Personally, I'm really starting to dislike a shortened (by the handle) lower limb myself......Art

I've been wondering the same thing but everything I started to write a thread asking the question my descriptions got all wadded up.  Your drawing really helped explain what you were asking...

I'd still love to hear some more opinions and reasoning behind the preferences.

Selfbow? Jawge

I use drawing B on my selfbows.  I figure I am holding the bow in center and drawing the string in center.  The arrow is just riding the string slightly above center.  

I have tried drawing A, and found it a little tougher to tiller and didn't see any advantage.

I'm just gonna quit maken real bows and buy a wheel bow. Them boys got it all fugered out for us:)

I always go for B the center handle it works best for my bows. Good Luck

Thanks for all the reply's,  So my question was general bow handle layout and the differences between the two drawings. The bow layout reference I used as a guide a few times on my self bows was from a net search and I found some old 1940's Popular Mechanics,Outdoor Sports,and a few other good bow making articles. Both Handles were used on board bows,stave bows, and ELB D belly types. When I started making bows they were all mostly sapling selfbows and I used handle (A) most of them failed, upper limbs. Now looking back can say it was do mostly to poor tillering and poor wood selection. All of this was Pre Trad Gang.. My most recent bow projects have been board bows with help from a few build-alongs all using handle (B)dead center and I have made one 58" rawhide backed Hawthorn selfbow with handle (A) thats hanging in their.  George would like your advice please on selfbows cus got some nice Saskatoon (service berry)ruffed out ready to go on next.

Thanks again for all the advice, Crg   GO CANUCKS!

The difference between the two designs is nothing more than how you would have to grip the bows to achieve best balance for limb timing.........Art

Here is a silly question for you guys... why are you making the riser so short? The shortest riser i have in the house is 14" fade to fade and that's on a 52" bow... I'm just curious... most of my risers range from 16" to 20"....

I'll give this a try....in selfbows you try and get the most limb length to work for you. In a glass bow because of it's strength you can have a shorter limb. So by making the "riser" on a selfbow smaller and fades that aren't real long you achieve having a longer limb to work for you without having to have a heavier draw weight to do this.

Just for the heck of it I sometimes go 1 1/2 and 2 1/2  Bue--.

QuoteOriginally posted by Art B:
The difference between the two designs is nothing more than how you would have to grip the bows to achieve best balance for limb timing.........Art

Was reading an article and the author was playing with the difference between true center for arrow nock and above center. His claim is there is not only a difference in grip but cast, although slight but it is there. True center has a more balanced force on release, he says less torque on arrow as it passes the shelf resulting in a slight increase in speed.  

Myself I tend to lean the direction that has been noted Byron furgeson explaining. I like the pivot of my thumb and for finger to push in to the center of the bow, with a 1 finger over and two under draw it balances the draw with no hand torque. For me this is more accurate. I even do this on my self bows if the stave is deep enough.

Thanks for the help Bue, im right in-between using layout B seems to be working. Chuck

When I lay out a selfbow I mark the middle of the stave, then make a mark 2" on either side of that for the actual handle and another 1 1/2" to 2" out for the fades. This usually puts my arrow about 1" to 1 1/2" above center. I like a bulbous handle so this gets the limbs bending right up to or through the handle.

I think my own personal preferrence falls somewhere in between the 2 designs you have there?
A 4" handle just feels too small and the bottom of my bow hand is nearly covering up the bottom fade, so I usually end up making my handle section around 5-5.5" long. I like the web between my thumb and forefinger to sit as close to dead center of the bow as possible, then my arrow actually goes about 1" or slightly higher above my hand. Unless I'm shooting right off the top knuckle then it's probably 3/4" or so. I also try for a slightly positive bottom tiller rather than a longer top limb.

May not be textbook correct, but it works for me.

Roy- I agree, I think you should stop building bows and just send all your excess material, clamps, jigs, forms, ect. on down here to me so you won't be tempted to make anymore bows.