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INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Let's build a bowie for TEOTWAWKI

Started by D.Ellis, January 08, 2013, 11:59:00 PM

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D.Ellis

I figgured it may be fun to do a series of pics of building my version of the "one knife to do anything if civilization implodes".........not that I am very concerned about that happening, but I digress.
This will not be the only way to make a blade, I may do things strangely and you can count on me taking a while to complete this, but those with more experience than me can correct my missteps and the begginers out there may just glean a tip or two along the way.
So to begin, I should lay out my thoughts on what is a requirement for such a blade. Like I stated above, these are my ideas and I reserve the right to be wrong, or to change my mind whenever I feel like it   :D  

First, I want a clip point blade, with the point just above the centerling of the blade. typically a blade with a centered point(think dagger) is very pointable. Or in other words, if I need to stab something quickly(maybe need to finish a deer or protect myself from an attacking feral dog etc) it is quick to point and the point goes where you look when you thrust it. I chose to have the tip just above center, which gives the blade a bit more belly. This will contribute to sliceing and slashing ability at the cost of some accuracy of thrust(theoretically).
The other reason for a clip point is for their ability to pierce with very little effort.

Second, it needs to be long enough to maximize leverage for chopping tasks. In this case I am aiming for 12.5 inches from guard to tip. Big enough for power, but still not too unwieldy.

Third. Balance must be slightly ahead of the guard.......within 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch or so. This will give me enough forward mass to chop well but still handle reasonably quick.

Fourth. It needs to be sturdy and yet thin at the edge so it cuts with very litle effort. I prefer 5160 steel for bigger blades. I have found it to hold up to more abuse, in thinner cross sections, than any other steel I have tried. This comes with a cost though, I have also found it will need sharpened more frequently than some other steels. I have tried O-1, 1095, 1084, L-6 and while these steels will stay sharp a bit longer, if they are thin at the edge they do not hold up as well for chopping so I need to leave them thicker, which translates into more effort required to cut. For a skinner or sliceing knife, I will use a steel with better edge retaining qualities, but for blades that need to chop, I prefer 5160 above all others.
So with that long winded intro and without further ado, let's begin.   :knothead:    

Starting with a bar of 5160(of course) I begin with forging the tip.
 
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

You will notice I am getting a slight fishmouth forming. I can reduce this by forgeing hot and using a heavy hammer, but I also find that I can thump the bottom "jaw" of the fishmouth back in by taking a heat and using the mass of the steel bar to tamp the anvil with it. Here's the next progress shot.


As you can see, I have got the tip forged down for several inches back, and the fishmouth is pretty much gone.
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

Having forged the basic taper for the clip, I now measure back and set down the plunges where the bevels will start.
 
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

Then I place the ricasso to be, on the anvil with the edge over the far side and hit the spine(at arrow) to set it down. If I don't do this, there will be a kink in spine above where the bevels start instead of a smooth straight line.
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

After a few more heats and a lot more hammering here's where I'm at. I try to forge the same number of hammer blows on each side of the blade to keep things centered. Usually there is some tweaking to do to get things to line up anyway, but this seems to help keep the crookedness to a minimum.
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

next I'll hot cut the blade off the bar, leaving enough steel to forge out the through tang. I just use a cheap axe and an able bodied assistant to hold the bar, and hammer the axe bit almost through the steel, then bend it a couple time with the tongs and off it comes.

60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

BowHuntingFool

>>>---Joe Bzura---->

Big River Longbow 66" 52# @ 28"
Big River Longbow 66" 47# @ 28"
Big River Longbow 62" 52# @ 28"
Big River Recurve 60" 48# @ 28"
NewWood Longbow 58" 45# @ 28"

Wisconsin Traditional Archers
     Ojibwa Bowhunters

D.Ellis

60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

And now here we are with the blade and tang forged and hot stamped with my mark.........cooling off after a normalizing heat.
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

D.Ellis

After it has cooled, only hammer work up to this point.
 
And then off to the belt grinder for a bit of refining of the profile, also roughed in the false edge so I can see what it's going to look like.
Here's where she sits for the next couple days until I get time to grind the bevels.
Like all those cool old westerns you used to watch that were just getting to a good part..........to be continued   :D  
 
Darcy   :)
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

David Yukon


madness522

Very nice!  Thats going to be a big knife!
Barry Clodfelter
TGMM Family of the Bow.

Lin Rhea

Very nice. I love that 5160 for this size knife.
"We dont rent pigs." Augustus McCrae
ABS Master Bladesmith
TGMM Family of the Bow
Dwyer Dauntless longbow 50 @ 28
Ben Pearson recurve 50 @ 28
Tall Tines Recurve 47@28
McCullough Griffin longbow 43@28

tomsm44

That is awesome.  I have got to get me some forging equipment.  Stock removal works great for the small blades that I typically make, but I would love to try a big knife just for fun.  From what I've heard, if I ever try it, I will probably start forging all of my blades, big or small.  You guys don't know of any hammer ins in N. Louisiana do you?
Matt Toms

Flatwoods Custom R/D:  64", 47@28
'66 Kodiak: 60", 55@28
Redwing Hunter:  58", 53@28
Ben Pearson 709 Hunter:  58", 47@28
Ben Pearson 709 Hunter:  58", 42@28
Hoots Recurve:  56", 42@28

akaboomer

Very nice start Darcy. I enjoy keeping up with WIP threads. I also like 5160 for big blades also. Keep it coming.

Chris

kansas stik man

i like it ,  will the clip end up sharp or not?
JD EVANS
------------
KAW RIVER KNIVES

STICKS AND STRINGS, A SIMPLE STEP BACK IN TIME!!!

D.Ellis

QuoteOriginally posted by kansas stik man:
i like it ,  will the clip end up sharp or not?
I am still undecided. I have never used a knife with a sharpened clip. I could see it giving me trouble if I needed to slit with the tip........like for field dressing game. I usually take the false edge to sharp and then just remove the edge with a few passes of wet/dry sandpaper leaving it almost sharp, but not sharp enough to cut. If anyone experienced with sharpened clips could chime in here and explain more fully the pros and cons that'd be great.
Thanks for the replies fellas, hopefully more progress soon. It's a bit chilly(7*f or -13*c) out there today(my grinder is outside) so I will have to stop and warm the pinkies every so often while grinding bevels.
Darcy
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

tomsm44

I've never used a knife with a sharpened clip, but I would tend to agree with you that it would likely cause issues with field dressing.  Also, I have used a rather large knife in a pinch before for some very fine detail work by holding it by the sides/back of the blade near the tip.  A sharpened clip would make that impossible as well.
Matt Toms

Flatwoods Custom R/D:  64", 47@28
'66 Kodiak: 60", 55@28
Redwing Hunter:  58", 53@28
Ben Pearson 709 Hunter:  58", 47@28
Ben Pearson 709 Hunter:  58", 42@28
Hoots Recurve:  56", 42@28

D.Ellis

Got a little more work done today. Not real exciting, mostly done the rough grinding. Still some more to clean up and lots of prep work before heat treating. Will take more detail pics of those steps tomorrow if all goes well.
I like to get the bevels ground in a couple stages with a break in between to look it over really closely. Otherwise I tend to get the edge slightly offcenter, or make the plunges uneven. If that happenes it goes in the cull bucket, so it pays to take my time. :D  

Darcy
60# GN Lil'Creep Jackknife
67# osage selfbow
62# "Zang Hill" string follow

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