Wood arrow help

Dorado · August 09, 2017, 04:50:00 PM

I know this has been discussed in length, but I just can't seem to figure this out. I'd like some help if y'all don't mind.

I'm running out of arrows and carbon shafts are too expensive. I've looked around and seen that I can usually get 2 dozen or more POC shafts for the same price as 1 dozen carbons. I know they're a bit more work but I'm alright with that.

What I'm shooting is a Bear Polar recurve. It pulls about 59# at 29" which is my draw length. I've seen that there are a lot more options for 125gn heads than the heavy weights I've been using so I was thinking of switching to those. What should I be looking for? I really don't know what to even start at.

My bow looks to be cut to center with about a 1/8" pad for the arrow rest. I'm using the Bear carpet kit for that. I have a B50 string with otter fur string silencers.
I've been using GT Traditional 340 arrows full length with 225gn heads and 5" shield cut feathers. They've been pretty good but I don't have the tools and things to cut and adjust them. Wood would be much easier for me and I'd be able to shoot without so much worry. I've broken 3 arrows this year, carbons are just getting too expensive for me to be shooting at ground targets and the like.

Pat B · August 09, 2017, 05:28:00 PM

When you buy commercial wood shafting the stated spine range is set for a 28" finished arrow with a 125gr. head. For each inch over 28" you can subtract 5# of spine weight or add 5# for each inch shorter. A Grizzly 2 blade or Wensel Woodsman 3 blade are 2 very good 125gr. heads. Both easy to resharpen and their width/length ratio is good for penetration.
I haven't bought shafting in a long time...for my selfbows I used to go with about 10# under draw weight for spine and for my old style Treadway longbow I shot 60-65 spined arrows for my 56#@26"(cut to 28") draw. I would guess 55-60# or 60-65# spined cedar shafts for a 29" draw with a 125gr head.
At 29" your arrows with 125gr heads will shoot 5# under stated spine.

Orion · August 09, 2017, 05:53:00 PM

Pat: Think you got the direction of your subtraction and addition mixed up. The addition or subtraction assumes a commensurate increase or decrease in draw weight and arrow length. I.e., 50#@28 is 53# at 29, etc. Too, the longer arrow will have a dynamically softer spine. Thus, he would need to increase static spine as draw length increases to compensate for the increased draw weight and reduced dynamic spine of the longer shaft.

Regardless, Dorado, a .340 spine is equivalent to about 93#. Even if you have a fair amount of weight on the front end, and the shafts are full length, they're going to be on the stiff side for your bow.

If you go with a point in the 125 grain range, a 11/32 POC shaft spined about 65-70# should work, give or take a little. Would be a good idea to get a test kit starting at 60-65, through 65-70 and 70-75.

Another reason you don't need as much spine with the wood shaft is that it is larger diameter than the carbon shaft, which is probably 5/16 in diameter or smaller. The effect of the larger diameter shaft is the same as building out the side plate. It holds the center of the arrow further from the center of the bow, thus it needs to flex more to clear the bow cleanly when shot. That means the spine has to be reduced a bit so the shaft will flex more easily around the riser.

August 09, 2017, 06:17:00 PM

It also makes a difference on how hard a particular bow shoots and whether one has a soft release or a hard release. If money is part of the equation, this gives you the chance to use Zwickey Eskimos or Hunter's Heads from 3 Rivers. Probably 65-70s, I recently bought a dozen Rose City premiums, for over $40, three are going be pheasant arrows. Wapitis are over $40 as well, but they will cut arrows to length and taper them for a few bucks, they send out very good shafts.

longbow fanatic 1 · August 09, 2017, 07:01:00 PM

Here is a general guide to begin with.

http://pin.it/Vas436O

M60gunner · August 09, 2017, 07:47:00 PM

Call the guys at Surewood and ask them for help. If it was me I would start with 60-65 spine, 65-70 spine and see which flys best. With your longer draw and woods spined at 28" I would say at least 5# over your draw weight maybe 10#.
I recommend these guys because the shafts I have gotten did not need a lot of straightening if any at all. These are Doug Fir and not Cedar shafts. Plenty good to start with.

Bud B. · August 09, 2017, 10:34:00 PM

Do you know the year of your Polar? It had a longbow look in the 50s and a recurve design later in life. That would make a big difference.

Dorado · August 10, 2017, 10:54:00 AM

My Polar is a 1958, it's just before the Bear coin in 1959. It's like a hybrid between a longbow and recurve. It's not as curved as a recurve, but much more than any r/d longbow I've seen. I say it's not a recurve because the string doesn't touch the limb once it leaves the grooves. Flings arrows with authority too. I got a lot of hand shock with light arrows and it was a bit noisy. I switched to heavier arrows and heads and it became quiet and smooth. Hence the 340 spined carbons and 225gn heads.

So, 60-65 or 65-70 to start and maybe 10# higher than bow weight. I'll see if I can get me a test kit and some field points next payday.

Longbow Fanatic 1, Thanks for that chart. According to it I should be good around 65-70. I'll look for a test kit that's on both sides of that.

Now about material. I've read that Port Oxford Cedar and Douglas Fir are the two best materials. Is that correct? Which would y'all suggest?

Bud B. · August 10, 2017, 10:58:00 AM

Doug Fir is heavier. Surewood Steve can be a big help, too, on spine suggestion. Give him a call.

Steve 541-688-0493

michaelschwister · August 10, 2017, 11:23:00 AM

I recommend getting a test shaft batch from surewood so you can always dial in before you buy for any bow, then buy tapered raw shafts from them and finish them. I just write the spine on the shaft with a pen, wipe on 2-3 coats of helmsman gloss spar urathane from a can with a rag, then fletch with duco cement. As bomb proof as arrows get. If you use/get your own turkey feathers you can save half the cost.

Dorado · August 10, 2017, 11:38:00 AM

Doug Fir it'll be then.
Soon as I can I'll give Surewood a call and see about ordering a test kit. I'll save their number.

I need to go turkey hunting this year. I'd really like to get me some feathers. Until then I'll have to sink a lot into buying some. Then again I don't have a feather chopper so I'm sunk there too.

Speaking of feathers. Does it matter on how I orient the grain with wood arrows?

nek4me · August 10, 2017, 12:46:00 PM

Before fletching align your nock so the tightest grain of the shaft is against the bow side plate as that is the orientation the supplier will use when grading spine for hand matched shafts.

M60gunner · August 10, 2017, 01:06:00 PM

Darado, I have a simular bow, year etc. Does the bows profile when strunglook a bit different to you? Mine does, almost a recurve bend in the top limb but more of a R/D bend in lower limb. I put this to a bowyers forum and was told this could be a "breasted" tiller. My question was bow safe to shoot? The answer was yes, now I am trying to find out if this a common thing or do I have a time bomb here.
Thanks, TomM

Dorado · August 10, 2017, 01:16:00 PM

My limbs are definitely different. Shoots fine though and no signs of cracking. If I'm not mistaken these are aluminum cored. The aluminum came from B-29 superfortresses. Mine's still in one piece so I can't verify that. I've flung hundreds of arrows out of mine and it's been doing just fine.

Tightest grain against the side plate. So opposite of cock feather. That'll be easy.

Bud B. · August 10, 2017, 01:49:00 PM

Sagittarius Archery for fletching. 100 shield or parabolic 5" for $30. $26 for 4". Die cut, not chopped. Shipping is reasonable.

NY Yankee · August 11, 2017, 12:49:00 PM

Can't really go wrong with Douglas Fir. They make great arrows.

Dorado · August 11, 2017, 03:27:00 PM

Sagittarius Archery. I've not heard of them. Great prices though. I'll save that. Thanks.

Brian Bishop · August 13, 2017, 08:53:00 AM

If your going to change to save money, its going to be a lot cheaper in the long run to go with carbon. Good wood shafts are going to run you at least $40 per dozen. They will not hold up nearly as well as carbon. On a dozen carbon, 12 out of 12 will shoot the same. Not so with wood. I love wood arrows, but the consistency and durability of carbon are far better than wood.

Dorado · August 13, 2017, 12:58:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Brian Bishop:
If your going to change to save money, its going to be a lot cheaper in the long run to go with carbon. Good wood shafts are going to run you at least $40 per dozen. They will not hold up nearly as well as carbon. On a dozen carbon, 12 out of 12 will shoot the same. Not so with wood. I love wood arrows, but the consistency and durability of carbon are far better than wood.

That's why I started with carbon. Problem is, I don't have any way to cut them, and dropping $90-$100 for a dozen arrows that may break on the first shot is a bit much for me right now. That and my back yard has a hunger for arrows. I swear that it'll reach up and eat any arrow that touches it. Since I like ground targets that gets expensive.

Bud B. · August 13, 2017, 01:54:00 PM

Judo points and dollar store foam footballs