turkish style bow build

[simonbradley]

Hello,
My name is Simon, I am new here and would like to build a bow. I like the Turkish style as it is shorter and I like the shape of it. I would like to build a basic bow of wooden siyahs and handle, the rest is a fibreglass (from the UK) material. I am not sure if it is called G10, some places seem to call it epoxy fibreglass. It is usually green in colour, about 30mm wide and 5mm thick (approx). I would like to make some as I can not find a supplier in the UK. I am not sure if this is G10 or not, I have found a supplier of uni-directional tape which is 50mm wide. I understand that if you were to build a bow using tape it should be uni-directional. I am not 100% sure why as I can't find much about making these sort of bows. There are youtube videos on laminating a bow but that would include thin strips of wood, either made myself or bought. I am trying to work to a budget and would prefer not using wood laminates at the moment. It seems trickier.
Any advice would be great, Thanks
Simon

EDIT: thanks for the support! and the design is mostly just a straight one piece limb. I have seen people glue the handle and siyahs to a single piece of green glass which is about 1 metre in length and about 30mm wide. They look fairly light weight and simple, it would be making the green single piece limb that would be a trick!

[Roy from Pa]

Welcome Simon.
I'm sure you will get plenty of info here for that bow.

[Kirkll]

That is a pretty big leap starting out with that design on a first bow. I have no experience with that type myself at all, so I won't be much help.

Hopefully Max will be of some help on limb design, and I believe Shredd has some experience with laying up his own glass. He may have suggestions for laying up your own composites.

Good luck!  Please post your progress on this adventure.    Kirk

[Mad Max]

The glass is probably from china
I have seen other people on the internet building bows like that

[KenH]

Hi Simon.  I bought my "bow blank" from a guy in Indonesia already recurved, and just added siyahs and a handle.  I didn't like my first handle so I'm "remoldeling" it.   The bars are called FRP in Europe --  poltruded fiberglass bars.  The recurves are added by splitting the tips back about a foot from each end, slathering the split faces with epoxy, and gluing them into jigs to get the recurve shape.  The siyah I made based on Turkish siyahs, they are flat glued to the ends of the bar and then wrapped in silk embroidery thread slathered with clear glue.  The handle is treated the same way.  For the photo, I only have the new handle taped in place not glued and wrapped.  I painted the limbs with a thick rubberized "tool handle" paint because it is flexible.  As it is, my bow is only 30# but you could increase the draw weight by epoxying lengths of regular bow-building unidirectional fiberglass strips on the back and/or belly.[attachment=1]

[Mad Max]

nice ken
How long is that one ken?

[Kirkll]

Pretty cool looking Ken.

I'm curious why you put that handle on the back of the limbs vs the belly?  Seems like you would have better luck with it on the belly and a shorter brace height too.
I'd be afraid of it popping off on the back like that.

    Kirk

[Shredd]

  I got an idea or two to shoot at yah...  But first I would like to know your skill level and what materials and tools you are familiar with... And what tools that you have access to...

[Mad Max]

Pretty cool looking Ken.

I'm curious why you put that handle on the back of the limbs vs the belly?  Seems like you would have better luck with it on the belly and a shorter brace height too.
I'd be afraid of it popping off on the back like that.

    Kirk

Turkish bows the bulge at the grip is on the back for that style bow

[KenH]

Unstrung, that bow is 38"  -- yes 38" -- in a straight line from nock to nock.  That's 51" overall around the outside of the curves.  The fiberglass bar is 47" long around the curves, the siyahs add 4" to the spread.  Draw weight is 30#@ 28".

Handle on the back side of the bow is traditional Turkish construction dating back to the 1400s...  The originals are wood-horn-sinew, often spiral wrapped with a layer of sinew; then covered with birchbark and layers of lacquer.

[Mad Max]

 

[Kirkll]

Unstrung, that bow is 38"  -- yes 38" -- in a straight line from nock to nock.  That's 51" overall around the outside of the curves.  The fiberglass bar is 47" long around the curves, the siyahs add 4" to the spread.  Draw weight is 30#@ 28".

Handle on the back side of the bow is traditional Turkish construction dating back to the 1400s...  The originals are wood-horn-sinew, often spiral wrapped with a layer of sinew; then covered with birchbark and layers of lacquer.

That's interesting bro... sounds like you've done your homework. It would be fun to get into building some of these older period designs. I'll bet those are tricky to get a string on. . Kirk

[simonbradley]

Hello,
Thanks for the response and comments. I have seen some youtube videos, done a  little research, ordered some woven roving and now preparing a simple mold for a single strip of uni directional fibreglass. I shall return...

also, that is a nice bow KenH and the short shortie by Max would be a nice goal to achieve.

[KenH]

KirkII -- I've been a member of the Asian Traditional Archery Research Network for more than 20 years, so, yeah, I guess I've done my homework on several of the traditional Central Asian bow designs, plus things like the Magyar/Hungarian bows and the Siberian/Finno-Urgic Two-Wood designs. 

"Converting" some of those designs from wood-horn-sinew construction to modern materials can be a real challenge.

At 30# that bow isn't hard to string.  If it was much more though,  I would make a stringing board to facilitate things.

[simonbradley]

Hello,
This is an update on what I have done so far. I made a former and lid which i wrapped in cling film, which I think you call saran wrap. Laid the individual strips of fibre in the former and then poured in the epoxy. There are bubbles in the end result. It had some flexibility but not much and a little effort, it bent and snapped. [attachment=1,msg2997672][attachment=2,msg2997672]
I left the former outside in the shed over night as I thought that having an epoxy glue go off in my room was not good. So I am not sure if the method of how I did it was wrong, the temperature or what.
I have ordered some unidirectional tape, 50mm wide (I believe you would call that 2 inches) I was hoping to lay that on some PVC pipe and glue it straight on with epoxy. Would I have to apply pressure for it to fix?
I cannot seem to find any info on what I want to do. I have a book "Glassfibre handbook" which mentions hand lay up.
Any advice welcome, thanks buds
Simon

[Mad Max]

What part of the bow are you making in that form?
Need a larger picture to see what is going on.

[simonbradley]

Hello Max,
The idea is a simple 28mm x 800mm x 3mm(ish) glass fibre limb. You see them on youtube when a guy will just glue siyahs and a handle to a green limb. The form is 800mm long by 3mm deep by 28mm wide. The lid was not well thought out as it snapped as I tightened it to the form.

[Kirkll]

I wonder if a guy could just lay up 4-5 layers of .060 gordon glass for something like this? Of course you would have to have the core pieces sanded both sides, but i see no reason it wouldn't work.

Come on Shredd.... you've played with laying up glass before. Give this old boy some of your vast knowledge.. i've still got some of your lime green chit.   Kirk

[KenH]

Gotta remember Simon is in the UK where bow-building glass isn't easily found like here in the States.

Simon -- I still think you'd be better off locating a seller of FRP bars there in the UK.  You could start by contacting this company.  Tell them what you're trying to do and ask for help in locating a source>  www.allproppedup.co.uk  You want solid bars between 30mm and 50mm wide, 3mm to 8mm thick, and 1.5meters long.

[Kauz]

Hello Simon,
for bow glass you might have a look at Merlin Archery Ltd, Unit 1 Great Central Trading Park, Great Central Road, Loughborough, Leicestershire LE11 1RW, Phone: +44 (0) 1509 233555, Customer service email: support@merlinarchery.co.uk
https://www.merlinarchery.co.uk/everything-else/bow-making/core-materials.html
They sell Bearpaw glass.