Flemish string woes

[deadsilence]

I need some advice. I've been attempting to make Flemish strings using a jig. After spooling off the strands and completing the first loop. On of my bundles is always longer, even though they started the same length. Upon completing the second loop once the string is pulled tight to put twist in the middle. One of the bundles is longer still, resulting in uneven pressure.

After examining a few of these and tearing them apart for reattempts, it looks like the bundle that comes out longer is stay straight in the braid under the loop and the other bundle is just twisting around it.

Have any of you experienced this? Any advice would be appreciated.

Jason

[Roy from Pa]

"After" you complete the first loop, place a small paper clamp at the end where you stopped twisting, hook the loop over a post, nail, or something and stretch both bundles out snug by hand.

Unwrap them from around each other a few times till they are separated from each other at the clamp.

Then untwist each bundle "separately" till the strands are laying straight in that bundle. "They get twisted up as you make the first loop." Then do 21 more twists to that bundle in the "same direction" that it took to get the strands to lay straight.

Then repeat that process on the other bundle.

After the second bundle has been twisted up, pull both bundles tight and then wrap them around your finger so they don't move, and the start the second loop.

I've often had one bundle maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 inch shorter after forming the first loop, but it doesn't affect the string.

There are many videos on youtube for making flemish strings.

[deadsilence]

Pic of what I'm talking about

[Roy from Pa]

As you are twisting up the loop, you are also twisting the strands up tight as you go, making them like a rope, they need to stay flat and straight..

After each time you do a twist and fold it over the other string, untwist the string a couple times to get the strands laying straight again. Just keep them all laying flat and unraveled as you go.

[LBR]

After I read your first post, my first thought was "I bet one of the bundles is white".  Then I read on down and saw the picture.

Roy from PA is spot on.  First you need to remove the twists you put into the bundles when making the first loop, then you add the same number of twists back in, BUT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.  This is called back-twist or counter-twist.  You will take these out when you make the second loop.  If you get it right, when you finish the second loop the bundles will be hanging straight with no twist, or very little.

Back to the white material.  The thickness of the strands can vary with the color.  This is because the color isn't a dye, but rather a coating.  Dye would only "stain" the material, not give us the nice solid, bright colors we like.  The brighter the color, the thicker the coating.  White is the natural color, and has no coating, so it's the thinnest strand. 

To fix this, either add a strand of white or drop a strand of red.  Won't hurt the integrity of the string at all, and will even out the bundle sizes.

Hard to tell from the pics, but you may not be getting as tight a twist on the white.  Straight off the spool white often seems to be a little slicker to me.  A good string maker's wax will fix this.

If you need any help, just holler.  I have wax, a video on string making, and discounted string material...and advice is always free.  I don't claim to know it all, but after 20+ years and thousands and thousands of strings, I've learned a thing or two here and there about making them.

Chad

[McDave]

I learned string making from Chad's video, and recommend it highly.

Not just white, but some other colors can be thinner than others, causing one of the bundles to turn out longer than the other, no matter what you do.  The way I solve that is to divide the colors between the bundles.  So if I want a 16 strand string made out of brown and yellow, I put 4 strands of brown and 4 strands of yellow in each bundle.  It makes for kind of a strange looking string.  I'm used to it, and like having the bundles turn out the same length.  Some people evidently like the way it turns out, and have asked me how I do it.  (Of course, the other possibility is that the asked me so they could avoid ever making a string like that).

[McDave]

Here's what a blended string looks like:

[attachment=1]

[LBR]

Cool idea Dave!  I've made several strings with multiple colors in one bundle, but never thought about it as a way to get the bundles to come out the same size.

White is the thinnest, but there are others that are pretty thin.  Black is one.  Fluorescent colors are generally the thickest. 

Chad

[deadsilence]

I thought the color could have something to do with it as I was having problems with red and black and then the red and white. Red always comes out long. May try the blended and see if that makes a diff.

[deadsilence]

Here is the result. When loops are finished. This is with a few pounds of finger pressure. Red strand to long. If I bare down on it they will both be tight. On my worst attempts they won't be. This happens on b50 and d97.

[Roy from Pa]

Jason, look at those strands.

They are twisted up like a bull rope.

They should be laying flat.

"After" you complete the first loop, place a small paper clamp at the end where you stopped twisting, hook the loop over a post, nail, or something and stretch both bundles out snug by hand.

Unwrap them from around each other a few times till they are separated from each other at the clamp.

Then untwist each bundle "separately" till the strands are laying straight in that bundle. "They get twisted up as you make the first loop." Then do 21 more twists to that bundle in the "same direction" that it took to get the strands to lay straight.

Then repeat that process on the other bundle.

Flat like this after second loop is formed.

[attachment=1,msg2829327]

Gives you a nice round string.

[attachment=2,msg2829327]

[LBR]

Again, Roy nailed it.  I will say it might be 21 back twists for you, or it could be more or less (less for me, but everyone twists a little different).  Back twist doesn't take long but makes a big difference in the finished string. 

When making a black/red or a white/red, with Dynaflight or B-55, either add a strand to the black or white bundle or drop a strand from the red.

[deadsilence]

Yea won't lie. Forgot the back twists on that one. But I didn't on the mixed string I just tried and it came out just fine. My dad had suggested maybe the red had something to do with it and I chalked it up to crazy talk. Thanks for all the help guys

[SteveB]

Couple other tricks I have used to get the bundles even.
1st one is if one bundle is longer after the 1st loop, I start that bundle just a touch shorter.

2nd I now use exclusively and it has eliminated the issue.
I make my loops on a solid peg. then every 3 or 4 twists(crossovers) I put one bundle in each hand and pull tight. Keeps the lengths even and really helps "set" the splice.

[kenneth butler]

Yes you have all the answers. Be sure and stretch both bundles out tight,regardless if one happens to be a bit longer, when you start the second loop. You want all strands to have equal tension on the finished string. Good luck on the next one. >>>----> Ken

[neuse]

Following this. I am new to string making and my strings are terrible.
Is there a youtube video that someone knows of?

[Roy from Pa]

Do a search on you tube for Flemish strings, there are a bunch of videos on it.

[kenneth butler]

Yes there are quite a few and LBR has a DVD out. He is a sponsor here. >>>----> Ken

[Roy from Pa]

Ken...

Dude..

[bigjohnmissalot]

the best money i have spent on strings and building strings, http://www.recurves.com/dvds.html , trust me, you will not be sorry, bigjohn