Does Tuning Really Matter to a Bow Hunter?

acedoc · October 29, 2018, 12:47:35 AM

I am ready for buffalo then I guess as per his stats. The bowyers do not know their stuff, I was told 2.5 pounds per inch of draw after marked length.

TGbow · October 29, 2018, 06:32:47 AM

Congrats!

Sam McMichael · October 29, 2018, 09:38:10 AM

LBR, I have also heard of people talking just as you have mentioned. But, many speak very eloquently and vociferously about that which they do not know. Sadly, many of them believe what they say.

LBR · October 29, 2018, 10:51:22 AM

Ace, you are ready for elephant according to that "formula".

Thanks TGbow!

Sam, sad truth. I can almost understand those just getting started being fooled, but there are lots that should know better...at least if they have the experience they claim. Why in the world someone would rely on a source of "information" that has zero experience is beyond my comprehension.

Don Stokes · October 30, 2018, 10:56:24 AM

I have a similar penetration story. Shot a young buck quartering hard away. He didn't go 40 yards, and the hit looked like a gut shot. The arrow hit several inches behind the ribs, went through the heart, and lodged so firmly in the sternum I thought I was going to break the arrow pulling it out. I might have been pulling 42# with that bow.

I've heard Dan Quillian say that increasing your draw length by 1" was like increasing draw weight by 10#, but there were conditions. His contention was that a 3# increase in draw weight was magnified by a longer stroke. I could go 5# maybe. He was prone to exaggerate to make a point. He was really big on getting the longest draw you could manage.

Don Stokes · October 30, 2018, 11:06:19 AM

Have to relate another story with the same bow. I shot a 140# MO doe, and she whirled at the shot. The broadhead cut a gash on her shoulder and then embedded in the neck, dropping her. However, she was far from dead, and my followup shots were deflected by the multiflora rose she fell in. I moved in with my knife, but she wouldn't let me get close enough, and was fully aware that I was after her. I killed her by cracking her skull with my brass-headed walking cane. I may be the only person to ever kill a deer with a walking cane. I don't recommend it. Brutal, but I had to put her down.

LBR · October 30, 2018, 12:42:30 PM

QuoteI've heard Dan Quillian say that increasing your draw length by 1" was like increasing draw weight by 10#......... He was prone to exaggerate to make a point.

Nothing but respect for Mr. Dan, but I agree...that was a bit of an exaggeration (and I'm pretty sure he assumed we knew better), plus Mr. Dan was actually an experienced hunter. The one I referenced before tries to pass it off as the gospel truth and has only killed time.

Power stroke does make some difference, but how much? I do know that if I were gaining that much of a performance increase (supposedly shooting like a 70# bow) there's no way a 32 inch, 500 spine carbon arrow with 200 grain points would fly anywhere close to straight. B.S. doesn't trump physics.

I normally shoot arrows that are 8-9 gpp at my actual draw weight. That's going to put me at around 6 gpp (using his formula), which I'd think would be blowing up bows...especially self bows...but on the flip side, until it blows up I should be getting well over 200 fps....and noisy, shocky bows. Doesn't happen.

It's not that hard to figure it out. Use a little logic, a little common sense, a little EXPERIENCE, and you can easily determine what's fact and what's imaginary book filler.

Pfranchise · October 30, 2018, 02:38:54 PM

Chad please tell me your going to eat that heart? I've always wondered about that performance increase with draw length idea. For example if you were to take two bows of the same model, one let's say 55@28 drawn to 28, and the other bow 52@29 drawn to 29, both shooting an arrow as close to the same weight and setup as tuning will allow. Which bow will shoot faster (ie perform better)? Does the extra 3lb of draw weight make up for the 1" shorter draw length? I'm guessing it wouldn't, the 1" extra draw length for the lighter bow would be faster I would think. But how much difference would there be? How much more draw weight do you need at 28" to match the performance of the lighter bow drawn it 29"? Any bowyers out there who have tried this out to test their bow designs efficiency?

LBR · October 30, 2018, 02:57:38 PM

Oh yeah--heart going to get cooked probably Thursday night.

I really don't know how much gain you get, on average, with an inch of draw length. I know it's not 10#. Like most everything else, I'm sure there are variables to consider.

As noted, I'd be blowing up bows and getting noisy, shocky bows with my 31" draw if it were 10#, or anywhere close...but dang I'd be getting some awesome speed (for a little while).

Better yet...if you gain 10# worth of performance for every inch drawn past 28", then conversely you should loose 10# worth of performance for every inch you are shy of 28", right?

When I presented this, along with the question "what happens to the arrow when you draw a 40@28" bow to only 24"? Does the arrow just drop to the ground?" I got crickets and then groupies monkey-piled me for daring ask their guru such a question...but as far as I know that ridiculous "information" is still in "the book".

Common sense and logic...works on some folks like sunlight and garlic on a vampire.

wingnut · October 30, 2018, 03:08:38 PM

My experience and testing show that every inch a shooter draws past 28" will increase arrow speed between 4-8 fps depending on bow design.

That is a 50@28 compared to a 50@29. Conversely if you draw less then 28 you will be adversely effected at the same rate.

My 30.5" draw gives me a large speed advantage shooting 50 on my fingers over someone shooting 50@28.

Mike

Don Stokes · October 31, 2018, 07:28:04 AM

Mike, I think that's where Dan was coming from. He had a chronograph and liked to play with it. His 10#/inch may have been an exaggeration to make the point that, all things being equal, a longer draw is better. There was a popular traditional shooter/author with a book out at the time who advocated a crouched shooting position, and that tripped Dan's trigger because the position tended to shorten draw.

Don Stokes · October 31, 2018, 07:33:50 AM

Chad, re Dan's experience, more than once at shows, when some guy tried to argue a hunting point with Dan, he would ask how many deer the guy had killed with a bow? Usually it was a handful, and Dan would dismiss him by telling him to come back and talk when he had killed 60 or more... Dan was not subtle.

LBR · October 31, 2018, 11:32:05 AM

Yeah, subtlety wasn't a strong point with him--lol. I didn't know him nearly as well as you, but I did get a chance to talk with him several times. A walking archery encyclopedia. I didn't agree with him on every point, but I knew that it was more productive beating your head against a big oak than arguing with him.

No doubt you get performance benefits from a longer draw, but 10# per inch? Not even close. Like I noted before, arrow spine and bow would tell you even without a chronograph. If 40@32 was equal to 80@28, then 40@24 wouldn't propel an arrow at all and we could hunt Cape Buffalo with 40@32 or elephant with 50@32. I know a young lady who'd killed at least two deer pulling around 25@24 and both shots were around 25 yds. According to "the book" that shouldn't be enough to kill a field mouse and the arrow couldn't begin to travel 25 yds...good thing she never read it.