Modern Longbow Design Inferior?!

[marklind]

So, I got the Howard Hill Co. longbow catalog, and there was this interesting ditty.

"For all hunting archers, the longbow with straight ends is the only one to consider."

While I realize that this is mostly trying to differentiate the longbow from the recurve, but the catalog refers to the longbow as the "straight-end longbow" everywhere.

While reflex/deflexing the bow helps with efficiency, what characteristics do we GIVE UP by designing the bow in this way? Is it more torquey and more sensitive to errors?

[bornofmud]

Depends on the design, but not really.  The deflex if anything makes the bow more stable, and reduces shock, which could potentially have a positive effect at long distances. If a limb is poorly designed (too thin for the amount of reflex), then yes, you will lose stability.  In a well designed limb, any loss of stability would be impossible to perceive in the normal working range of the limb.

In other words, we don't give up anything, Hill co. is most likely just pushing their own design as the best because it's theirs haha.  Could it match a r/d design? Probably, certainly up to a certain point, but I'd say that a well designed r/d will out perform every time.  Different feel to the bows and the experience of shooting though, which is all that really matters anyways.  Shoot the one you like best!  Make the ones you wish you could see made!

[Pete W]

Shoot a Hill,and some modern bows with Reflex and deflex. then answer this for yourself.

[bornofmud]

Well I found an interesting link on this, but was told I'm not to share links to other (apparently especially that one) forums, so I'll try and sum up the parts of it that pertained to your question. I can pm you the link if you want to read more.

Basically, it comes back to stability.  Hill style bows are exceptionally stable, and thus can be more forgiving than modern bows.  There was some interesting stuff about deflex actually reducing stability by allowing more play at the tips, and an analogy about golf drivers and how they center the weight AROUND the ball to increase stability, rather than putting the weight behind the ball.  Not sure how accurate of an analogy it was, but it seemed to make some sense.  I'm still of the opinion that a modern bow offers a better balance of performance and stability (when well done of course), but again, it comes down to your shooting style and what bow you're enthusiastic to shoot.  My experience with Hill style bows is restricted to one low end bow and maybe 40 shots, and personally I prefer something with a bit more of a hybrid shape, but who knows, I've yet to shoot a real hill!

[M.Kerry Bird]

You gain shootability, speed, smooth draw and zero to light hand shock with a modern ref/def bow over a hill style. I've built and bought both kinds and won't shoot a hill again. For  ground and tree stand hunting a shorter ref/def is handier to use as well.  I agree with the above statement 100%, shoot  a hill bow side by side with a popular ref/def and you'll see the difference for yourself.

[Overspined]

I like both styles.  I see people shoot R/D and Hill style bows wrong all the time.  If you match the bow to the style, they all shoot great.  A well designed Hill will hang with the R/D. Inherently the R/D is a smoother shooting design for shock/thump, but not all Hill styles have vibration.  A lot is in the design/bowyer, but the shooter must know what they are doing too.

[Pete W]

"A well designed Hill will hang with the R/D"

In which way do you mean a  Well Designed Hill will hang with the R/D?
Pete

[LittleBen]

I'm curious as Pete is.

I've shot a number of Hill bows, and plenty of similarly styled straight limbed, narrow wood bows, and none of them shoot nearly as fast or hand-shock free as a fancy R/D bow. Even my wood R/D bows.

There was one excepetion. I shot a string follow hill bow in a lighter weight that was made by a tradganger for the bow swap and it was really quite nice. Extremely low handshock, very quiet. Not particularly fast, but acceptable. I think it did about 170fps and change at 9-10gpp and 29" draw, 44# draw at that length. So not a rocket launcher by any means, but totally capable of taking deer and very pleasant to shoot. IIRC it was all cherry lams with clear glass ...

With all that said probably the same bow bent into R/D and without string follow woudl shoot faster with the same same low handshock.

So my question is ... do you need the extra FPS? and is a Hill bow too long for what you need it to do?


Lastly, I would disagree with the style matching the bow theory. I don't think theres really any reason for doing so other than that you like to (which is perfectly fine), I think it's more of an anecdotal wives tale than anything. I can guarantee if you gave a hill bow to an olympic shooter they'd shoot it just like their target bow, and they'd shoot the pants off of any of us. Not trying to be difficult, I'm just saying I don't think theres any evidence that you need a certain shooting style to shoot a certain bow well.