Can Files Be Quality Knives?

Ragnarok Forge · January 27, 2011, 11:52:00 PM

I poke around on a lot of knife making forums, and enjoy learning everything I can. Last night I came across a thread that had a lot of "experienced" knife makers bashing file knives and claiming the steel was for novices.

I like re-using steels. You can take a discarded tool and turn it into a new tool that could be around 100 years from now.

I believe that a great knife can be made out of a file or horse rasp by using the proper techniques, temperatures, and quench media . I am curious what you guys think. I am particularly interested in what the resident JS and MS smiths think.

I am using Nicholson and Simmonds files and Heller Rasps

Lin Rhea · January 28, 2011, 08:16:00 AM

I think you've made enough knives, good knives, to know the answer to that question. If the steel is good to start with and you do your job, it can be a good quality knife. I believe it.

The question then is, is the file good steel? The only way to know is to try it and see if it passes the tests of being a good knife.

First by testing to see if it will harden, then after drawback, finish grind and putting on the edge, will it cut and not roll or chip?

After a couple of generations of hard use, you'll know.

Lin Rhea · January 28, 2011, 08:38:00 AM

I look around on some of those forums too. Yesterday I read some stuff on another traditional forum about blade heat treat that would curl your hair. It was just wrong. I dont hang out there and will not butt in. I'm at home right here.

It just shows me that I have to take the things I read on the web with a grain of salt.

Doug Campbell · January 28, 2011, 09:27:00 AM

Lin said it well Clay, long as you take the time to determine the quality of the steel it doesn't matter where it comes from. Let the detractors talk while you keep making nice knives and see which one wins in the end.

Ragnarok Forge · January 28, 2011, 10:20:00 AM

It was interesting to me to see quite a few knife makers bashing on files as good knife steel. Most of them were referencing how they used to make their knives out of files then moved on to far better steel types. I always wonder about an agenda and the ego of someone who trys to push a favorite steel over everything else.

I have always appreciated the time and effort everyone here spends on helping others. It is really awesome to have JS and MS smiths posting and helping out those of us who are on the steep end of the learning curve.

sticshooter · January 28, 2011, 12:05:00 PM

Well I have got my fair share of your wasteing your time making Resurrected Blades. But That is whta I love to do. I am nowhere near Lin or Doug, two awesome makers. But I have alot of knives out there and alot of people who ,love them. that being said There are a few who don't like my style. I like to say Stics are a aquired taste. I love the look of a rustic knife made from files or sawsteel or anything that was made for one thing and thrown way. I dont like perfect, perfct makes me wann put it on a shelf and look at it....not use it. Are there way better steels to use ?You bet there is, but does that mean a file knife can't be used for years an hold up? NO. Clay make what ya want and let those who dont like it lump it.

Some bladesmiths will frown on our knives because you choose file steel but thats there right. they strive for perfection and they get. me I just do the best I can while keeping fun. Some told me they wantd to go for there JS but wnated to make there style blades. But the ABS will not accept that style. So he ha to make what they do accept. He knows that paper that says JS can mean more $$$ for his knife. ABS is a good oRG and does alot for its members.

Ragnarok Forge · January 28, 2011, 01:24:00 PM

I am joining the ABS in the apprentice membership program this month. I plan to test for my JS stamp in about 3 years. That doesn't mean I plan to give up using recycled steels for knives. I will make my 5 knives and test knife to their standards and requirements. I plan to pursue a MS stamp somewhere down the road as well. I will purchase the steel for those blades from a reputable steel dealer.

I bladesmith as a hobby for fun and relaxation. I make what comes to mind or based roughly off another design I really like. If I can make that blade out of recycled steel I will do it. Two reasons. I have kids in school which means I am working on the cheap right now. That, and it makes me feel good to do so.

ron w · January 28, 2011, 04:46:00 PM

Quality steel is quality steel. I'm no knife maker but was a toolmaker for 38 years before retirement. Like was said above, proper heat treat and good materials will render a fine knife or tool. Plus I think it gives them a charm all their own! Keep that old steel alive and working!!!

charlie phillips · January 28, 2011, 05:08:00 PM

I just made a knife from a old file turned out OK.I been reading on here about how to make a knife,so I gave it a try.I'm gonna get my wife to try to post some pictures.I enjoy the reading here.

TXCP

Ragnarok Forge · January 28, 2011, 05:18:00 PM

Charlie,

I will look forward to seeing your knife.

kansas stik man · January 28, 2011, 06:22:00 PM

clay stic put it into great words and i agree totally that its not to make knives to suit other people its to build knives as your passion the way you want them and if somebody elst likes your style enought to wanna purchase one then thats awesome just goes to show that as humans we have very different taste then other people. some like chrome blades some like partly rusted blades. if we all made the same knives from the same steel, the same way it would have NO meaning to anybody it would be more like a job. out of all the builders on here there are a few i just love there style and stic is on that list. the file, raspy look is it for me. so build what makes you happy and everybody else will either like it or they wont. and if they dont its they're loss.

Kevin Evans · January 28, 2011, 06:33:00 PM

Lowell like you I am an aprentice ,been making a couple of years now.It took me awhile to figure out what the JS and MS are about and I may not have it yet ,but I think what they are wanting especially in the first part(performance test) is you showing control of the steel.If you really listing to Lin thats what he's saying the steel is probally ok just test and re-test. he left out the board cut the rope cut and then the bend,really easy enough but try to do all the things in the test .
You must show control you really can't just be lucky.Believe me .I'll show you about 7 or 8(maybe more) broke blades.
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with file blades.Hec sent Stic one of the first I made and let me assure you his are real good but will they pass the bend probally not .Does's
t hat make them inferior No ,its simply means they won't bend.
I am new to this stuff compared to the MS and JS ,Its just about knowing what is going on with your steel forwards and backwards and being in CONTROL of that paticular steel.Sorry to be long winded just my thoughts.
I guess what I really am trying to say is unless I am going for the rustic look ,I truly don't understand why not use some type of steel that you can get lots of imformation about from your peers that only cost $2 a foot (only a small part of the cost of the knife) Kevin

charlie phillips · January 28, 2011, 06:47:00 PM

CLAY I've made 3 knifes so far.I don't have many tools.Hand belt sander a small drill press and a small bench grinder and some hand tools.my heat source is a propane burner with bricks stacked around it,gets hot.knives seem to sharpen up good.I enjoy making them.

TXCP

Ragnarok Forge · January 28, 2011, 07:17:00 PM

Rooster1.

With a wife in college and two girls in school I can get a knife blank or two from a file for a cost of 50 cents or less each for good used files picked up at a farmers market, or in bulk groups at auctions and swap meets.

The vast majority of quality American files and rasps made today are made out of 1095. I verified this with Heller, Simmonds, and Nicholson.

Kevin Evans · January 28, 2011, 09:09:00 PM

Ragnarok Forge

Congradulations on having a wife in college and two girls in school,that is a good thing.

Sounds like you are doing a great job buying your materials.

I'm sure Heller,Simmonds ,and Nicholson will not lead you astray

Sorry to bother your post after all you said you where particularly interseted in what JS and MS had to say (Which I am Not)

Keep up the good work

Ragnarok Forge · January 28, 2011, 10:52:00 PM

Rooster1,

No bother at all. I was looking for all the makers and smiths opinions. I figured a JS or MS might know an extra thing or two on the steel since they have more time than we do in the smithing world.

Steve Nuckels · January 29, 2011, 08:40:00 PM

Lowell AKA Clay, I also like using old files and saw blades for knives. I also found some long tines from an old farm implement that I plan on forging soon.

I'm finshing a small knife from a saw mill blade and will post it soon, doing some silver wire inlay on it.

Too many projects, not enough time!

Keep on keepin on Bro!

Steve
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Potomac Forge