HH bug got me ... Part One!

[ChrisM]

When I talked to Craig when I got my last bow he said he liked the Half Breed due to looks and it still had the feel of some Boo.  I prefer Boo though.  Just know that if you get carmelized Boo it will not be one countinous piece.  It multiple strips.

[seven crows]

thanks for the pics by the way Greg. After seeing all the Hills on here ya just don't want/need anything else. Just more of them.

[seven crows]

Chris M, can you explain further about multiple pieces in caramelized boo. Is there more then one piece in outer layers? hows that possible? hmm? Any differences in performance over regular. Thanks

[ChrisM]

If you look at the back or belly of the bow under the glass will look like laminate flooring.  Its like narrow strips were glue together to make a lamination.  The nodes don't line up, they are stagered.  I think someone told me it was actionboo.  My next one will be brown glass for sure it just screams classic.

[seven crows]

Thanks Chrism, Guess I have more questions for Craig, HH site does not mention action boo anywhere.

[Gordon Jabben]

Ray, I got my Whisper a couple of weeks ago and I have never shot a Hill style bow so well.  I bet you will really be happy with yours.

[ChrisM]

I was kinda surprised when I got the bow.  It shoots great though.  Craig will do all kinds of stuff that is not listed, he will even use carbon.

[mikebiz]

Originally posted by BCWV:

Thanks.  That is a great looking riser.  Bocote is a beautiful wood.  Love that dark waving grain.

[Overspined]

Carmelized boo at Hill Archery is only dark stained, per Craig. I've never seen action boo on anything he does, but maybe by special request. Steve at Northern Mist will and does use action boo, and has good results with it.  It's very consistent and performs well.  My preference with NM is action boo cores or elm.  Love my elm core bows.  I like the yew, boo, or combos from Craig.

[ChrisM]

My Wesly's bamboo is thin slices that have been glued up.  Wonder what is up with that?

[Overspined]

Chris, I wouldn't worry about it. Laminated bamboo is really consistent and performs as well as anything else.

[seven crows]

Chris I spoke with craig (HH) . He said yes the caramelized and some regular boo is indeed laminated. He calls it LAMBOO and says he uses it because of how well it performs.

[seven crows]

I also asked a question about number of laminations vs performance. It is true that more lams increases performance. However, there is a law of diminishing returns that comes into play. The biggest increase is going from 3 to 4 lams. You will also gain going from 4 to 5 lams, but not as much as from 3 to 4. You will also gain going from 5 to 6, but not as much as from 4 to 5. I haven't noticed any significant change by adding more lams to a 6 lam bow. It also works the same way with other limb materials too because you are adding glue joints....but the biggest changes come with using bamboo because of the fiber increase.
Yes, the carmelized bamboo is a laminated bamboo. I also have some regular color bamboo that is action boo, but most of it is a one piece bamboo. The laminated bamboo (lamboo) increase performance a little, but not enough to get too hyped up about.

[ArrowPlane]

I tried making my first back quiver, and it's somewhat Hill-style, but not exactly.  I am having a rather hard time getting used to it, and I'm not really in love with it.

Since my Hill is on the way, I want to make another one, but right this time.  I'll be using my current until then to try and figure out exactly what needs to be changed on it from a form/fit/function perspective.

In addition to that, does anyone have any fanstic references for the construction of a back quiver?  Pictures are good for a sense of the style and construction, but to get the straps right with regards to alignment and fit, they don't do much.  I'm not a huge fan of the lace adjustment system on most Hill-style quivers, but is that the secret to getting them to fit right?

Thanks all for the input.

[Bud B.]

I used the back quiver plans by Rob D in the how-to section but made a few personal modifications. I changed the top strap placement after trying it on the upper/inner corner of the quiver body but found it dropped the arrows too far away from my limited reach. I moved it to the center and now it's much better for my reach. An occasional bump is needed by my bow arm elbow to kick it up a bit for reaching the arrows, but usually not.

I used a strap adjustment style shared with me by David Mitchell. I like the lace adjustment ease of use. Simply untie and adjust and then retie. If the lace ever breaks, it's an easy replacement to be back in business.

The open slot in the fold over flap is where the strap used to be located.

If I build another one it'll be much the same but about an inch or two longer and about three inches wider. The leather piece was 26" tall folded to 21" +/- and 19" wide at top and 18" wide at bottom before lacing together. I'll likely go 28" tall folded to 23+" and 22" wide top and 20" wide bottom. I have the leather to make two more, but have yet to commit knife to a cut. Some day.

Treated with Olive Oil and then Aussie conditioner with a touch of waterproofing.

     

[tradlongbow]

Originally posted by Overspined:
Carmelized boo at Hill Archery is only dark stained, per Craig. I've never seen action boo on anything he does, but maybe by special request. Steve at Northern Mist will and does use action boo, and has good results with it.  It's very consistent and performs well.  My preference with NM is action boo cores or elm.  Love my elm core bows.  I like the yew, boo, or combos from Craig.

I bought a carmelized bamboo Big 5 from Craig a couple years ago. Craig does not stain the bamboo, it's heat treated to get the bamboo carmelized.

In my opinion it's a little stiffer to draw, and also a little quicker. If you go back on this thread a couple hundred pages, there's an in depth conversation on how the limbs are heat treated to get the carmelized look.

This is a quote I found from Rob D. "heat tempering bamboo/cane ("caramelizing") always increases stiffness, compression and durability.

as an example, if 2 tembos were built to the precise same spex, but one had the boo heat tempered to the point of changing the pith color (and molecular composition), the heat tempered limbed bow will be higher in draw weight."

link to the my carmelized bamboo Big 5
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=098440#000000

[Nate Steen .]

So which way does Craig carmelize?  Two methods said as per Craig....

[tradlongbow]

Originally posted by sunset hill:
So which way does Craig carmelize?  Two methods said as per Craig....

I just talked to Craig on the phone, he does not stain the bamboo, it's heat treated when he buys it. I remember him telling me this several years ago when I bought mine. Stain bamboo will fade in the sun, the heat treated will is carmelized through out the bamboo.

[tradlongbow]

Originally posted by sunset hill:
So which way does Craig carmelize?  Two methods said as per Craig....

I just talked to Craig on the phone, he does not stain the bamboo, it's heat treated when he buys it. I remember him telling me this several years ago when I bought mine. Stain bamboo will fade in the sun, the heat treated will is carmelized through out the bamboo.

[Overspined]

Craig told me it's stained. This was a year ago, I have one up right now where we discussed it when I ordered it, maybe 1 1/2 yrs ago. Anyway, that's what he told me.  Maybe it's different now...      

I just wanted the color to be dark anyway, I wasn't looking for anything different like a performance increase so I really didn't care either way.  Whatever, really is of no consequence.

The information via Rob was exactly why I asked about it.