Draw length discussion

[Mike Bolin]

This past winter a group of us shot an indoor traditional league. Most of the shooters were my age (65 in October) or older. Watching the other guys shoot, I noticed that most everyone had 4" or more arrow sticking out in front of their bow when at full draw. I figured it was just the length of arrow they need to get good arrow flight...until I asked them. "Draw 30" and have my arrows cut to 31" or "I draw 28" even and with a broadhead it touches the riser when I am at full draw." Over the course of a few weeks I spoke with about all of them on the subject of draw length and only a couple of guys said that their arrows were over an inch longer than their draw length.

I spent this morning tuning arrow for my recurve in anticipation of turkey season. I use a clothes pin or just a piece of cardboard with an arrow sized hole in it to check my draw length. I used to have a 28.75" draw anchoring at the corner of my mouth. 28" is what I got today. Still anchoring in the same place as I have for the last 35 years but I've lost .75" of draw length. I had my wife video me shooting and I am hitting my anchor.

In some of the cases of the guys I shot with, I feel they were over bowed and were moving their anchor points to their fingers instead of their fingers to their anchor point. You could see them moving their head and neck forward as they drew, but that doesn't explain how I've lost  three quarters of an inch of draw length.

I've been told that we shrink as we get older so maybe it's just the way it is. Have any of you noticed a decline in your draw length as you've aged? I am expanding at full draw with a solid anchor. Bow arm shoulder is locked with bone to bone alignment. I do realize that riser/handle design can play a factor, but this is the same style bow from the same bowyer that I have shot for the last 25 years.

[Jim Wright]

I belong to a club and have shot a good bit of 3d shoots over the years. I have often noticed that people thought they had a good deal longer draw length than they actually did and age was not always a factor.

[Ari_Bonn]

Alot of people don't actually know their true draw length.   

[McDave]

Definitely!  I used to have a solid 28" draw.  Now, at the age of 75, it's 27.5.  I actually have a better draw with more expansion than I used to have when my draw was 28". It's definitely age related.  My height for most of my life was 5' 10.5".  Now it is 5' 9".  I understand how gravity pulls us down and we lose some of the space between the joints of our spine, but I don't understand how that would reduce the wing-span between my fingertips, but that evidently happens too.

[Wudstix]

I've had a good solid 27.375" draw for ever.  Now I'll see if it starts to shrink.

[Orion]

I agree with JW.  A lot of folks think they draw longer than they do.  I've shrunk nearly an inch over the years.
My draw length varies with the type of grip I'm shooting, about 27 with a straight griped ASL, closer to 28 inches with a pistol grip recurve. Best I can tell, I haven't lost much draw length over the years.   

[Silent footed]

Hey, I just started experimenting with this but I really think it's best. Through use of a friend, also a clicker, and some trial and error, adjust the clicker so it pops when your upper draw arm has rotated to near the 150 degree position off shoulder (look at Terry's clock). Then hang the bow up with an arrow nocked and SAFELY (NOT TOWARDS YOURSELF OR FRIEND) pull until it clicks and mark the arrow and measure. This is your TRUE draw length.Then tune your arrows with the clicker signaling full draw when your elbow rotates back into the proper position.

You can then remove the clicker or leave it for a while to train yourself on the elbow position.

[Steelhead]

In a nutshell I do believe draw length shortens as we get old for many archers.Mine has for sure.

I also have seen that some archers think their draw is longer than it really is.

Perhaps some guys get a little extra length when they check it than when their actually shooting?

Its important to know your your true draw length for a variety of reasons.

I checked mine recently and was surprised that it was shorter than I thought and shorter than it was in my prime for sure.My form has changed a bit as well.So that accounts for some of the shortening.

[alaninoz]

Part of the problem is that people mean different things when they say "draw length". Do they mean AMO draw length, True Draw Length as defined in the AMO standard, or something different? Confusion is bound to reign until we know what they're talking about.

[tmattson]

So I thought drawing an actual arrow numerous times, having someone mark the arrow exactly where it meets the outside of the riser, measuring knock Grove to that mark was the best way to measure your draw length? And also then drawing that same arrow to that marked point on a scale to verify actual weight? Am I missing something?

[Mike Bolin]

tmattson-Having someone mark your arrow is fine. I usually just put a wooden clothespin on the arrow or a small piece of cardboard with an arrow sized hole in it.

[mnbwhtr]

I've shrunk from 6' 1 1/2" to 5' 11" and my draw length has gone from 32" to 30" over the years and from 75-80# weight bows to 50-57# over the years. I think it's just natural. I still cut my arrows 30 3/4" or with broadheads I'll pull them off the shelf on my initial draw. When I release they are about 30".

[Bisch]

I used to be a consistent 29.5" DL. A while back I hurt my neck, which greatly affected the strength in my bow arm. Somewhere in there I lost 1/2" of DL. I just noticed the other night that I may have lost a little more since then, but have not measured to verify yet.

Bisch

[McDave]

Draw length is a moving target.  People who attend Rod Jenkins' course commonly report increases in draw length of 1/2" or more from learning more efficient ways of drawing the bow.

Draw length is variable, depending on:
-Weight of the bow.  A heavier weight bow compresses the joints more in the arms and shoulders.  Plus, people just don't draw a heavier weight bow as far, once weight exceeds a certain level.
-Degree of string arm rotation.
-Degree of shoulder rotation that pushes the bow arm forward.
-How open or closed the shoulder alignment is at full draw.

We measure draw length to the back of the bow for convenience.  But the actual definition of draw length is measured to a spot that is 1 3/4" in back of the pivot point of the riser.  I have bows where the back of the bow is 1/2" in either direction away from that spot, so going to extremes, my draw length would measure 1" different on each of those bows if measured to the back of the respective bows.

Edit:  this could also explain why measured draw weight might be different from marked draw weight on some bows.  If the bowyer was measuring the weight correctly to a point 1 3/4" in back of the pivot point, and you're measuring it to the back of the bow, the two weight measurements will necessarily be different if those two points do not correspond.

[Jim Wright]

For clarity's sake in my earlier post I mean I have noticed many shooters at full draw with 2" to 5" of shaft past the face of the riser. When asked they replied with what their draw length throat of nock to back of point was and that their shafts were cut 1" longer. Simply put they thought their draw length was longer than it actually was.

[starshooter]

Oh boy.... this is a favorite concern of mine... I used to pull 26" - now having learned the mechanics of drawing rotationally my dl to my anchor ( feather scraping the corner of my mouth) is 25" . My accuracy has or shall we say consistency ,improved somewhat. BUT I still feel the need to "expand "  squeeze and extra half to one inch which cause  incorrect use of arm muscles
The result is inconsistent shot placement. My arrows are cut at 28" and there is usually three inches of arrow extending from the handle.I like to think that . Otherwise
It likes tossing a ball underarm into a waste basket.
Thanks for the tip about using cardboard to measure . Will give it a try.
All of this is important to me as I need to figure dynamic dl vs. AMO dl which is inaccurate for many reasons as we all know.

[BAK]

Jim you are correct.  I too saw this at league for years.  And don't make the mistake of telling them, some get very irritated being told they are short drawing their arrows.

[George Vernon]

Let me add one from personal experience.  When I'm measuring my draw length, I use my best posture and form and typically do so when I'm rested.  When I'm out shooting, and especially after a significant number of shots, I don't think I'm using best posture and form on every shot.

I see the same thing with everyone in the group I regularly shoot with.  Makes me wonder how much variance I introduce when I'm tuning a new set up.  Probably using best posture and form during tuning.  Not so much with my other shooting.

Kind of reminds me of the oft heard command from my grade school teachers—'sit up straight and pay attention'.

[Victory Rider]

Well I just sold my compound and going Trad only again. Had to give it up a few years back when I tore up my shoulder. Spent a lot of time over the past month getting my form back into shape, anchor point, etc. Had a solid 31" draw, now it's a solid 30". Spent time yesterday with my son watching me draw and marking my arrows. I'm now 10 years or so older (60)!!!! I'm just happy all my arrows and bow set up are still good.