ASL's: Back Set or String Follow?

[Orion]

I changed my mind.  I said in a post on the first page that I preferred back set ASLs because they're faster.  True, they are a tad faster than straight or string follow bows, but string follow bows have a draw force curve that tends to fit me better.  They start out softer and build weight faster toward the end of the draw, almost feeling like they stack a little.  However, before the heavy lifting starts, my body is in better alignment to handle it. String follow bows are also gentler on the bow hand at release, i.e., less hand shock.

We're not talking big differences here, but the more I shoot string follow ASLs, the more I like them.   

[Rob DiStefano]

It's all personal and it's all good.

I'll take string follow any day for it's typical shot-to-shot stability.  As with back set or string follow, it's the rest of the design and build that will matter as much.

[evgb127]

Since I started this thread about six years ago, I've tried all sorts of different bows. For me, it all comes down to the tillering and bowyer.  A Northern Mist American, which has a considerable amount of backset, will feel much more stable and shoot circles around some other bowyers' string follow offerings.  That said, all things the same, I'm in the stringfollow camp for the reasons stated above.

[Hill Style]

I'm shootings backset San Marco now but have owned several string follow bows. It depends on the design and bowyer imo as to how much difference it makes.
A guy on another forum chronograph a few of his ASL bows. A Northern Mist American with 2" of back set and a couple pounds  heavier was only 3 fps faster than a string follow JD Berry longbow of lesser draw weight. Proof to me a string follow bow doesn't necessarily have to be slower than a backset bow. If those two bows were the exact same draw weight the string follow would be faster.

[Rob DiStefano]

Hmmmm .... how can a longbow that has back or belly set be called an ASL?

[Hill Style]

Hmmmm .... how can a longbow that has back or belly set be called an ASL?

American semi longbow (ASL)
The name doesn't have anything to do with the limb profile it was built to.
Straight,backset,string follow are all ASLs. Howard Hill coined the phrase and he built them string follow and backset some with a lot of backset.

[Orion]

From myth earlier post.  "When Hill offered the term semi-longbow, he did it in comparison to the English longbow, which, in fact, was quite a bit longer.  Not uncommon for them to be 72 or more inches long. 

"BTW, the D-shape referred to the cross section of an English longbow limb, not the strung profile of the bow, which also happened to be D shaped.  The American Semi-longbow limb has a flatter, rectangular cross section, but does string up into a D shape profile."

According to Hill, an ASL's limbs were long (but not as long an an English longbow, thus the word semi-long)and rectangular in cross section. He didn't mention back set or string follow in his definition, but most of his early bows were string follow because they were all bamboo laminations and took a set naturally.  I believe he started incorporating back set into his bows with the use of fiberglass which would hold the shape. 

Whether the limbs are back set, straight or string follow, it doesn't change the definition of an ASL.

[Rob DiStefano]

Semantics to a fair degree.  In England, longbows without ovoid bellies are called "flat bows", which is exactly what Hill created.  The prime difference is in the limb cross sections.

[Hill Style]

[attachment=2,msg3045368]One definition of semi is half of. The two pictures one is of a cross section of an English longbow from the Mary Rose showing nearly a round shape. The second picture is from Howard's book Hunting the Hard way notice the cross section is about half of what the English longbow was. Also notice the taper to the belly of the bow on a true ASL, nothing really flat on these bows. And this was a self bow made from a stave. When Howard moved to glass backed bows the limb width narrowed as we see in John Schulz bows or later Howard Hill archery bows.
Bob Burtons  book shows several pics of Hill made bows, some backed with fiber glass some bamboo only. They all had the taper or trapping to some degree. The newer made rectangle nearly square edged longbows being sold  are not Hill style bows.

I think Howard had the term exactly right with Semi Longbow I think the Semi is the  (cross section) not necessarily the length as the bow pics in his book were for a 6' bow.
I think American Semi flat bow could be a term that fits some of the wider limbed longbows being produced today, as they are not Hillstyle nor true ASL. [attachment=1,msg3045368]

[GregD]

I did not realize this was an old thread till I saw I asked a question. The only thing I know for sure is I still love the look of Tracy's BBO.

[Hill Style]

[attachment=1,msg3045573]For what appears to be a simple design of a bow there is a lot more going on. And even more confusion it seems.
Just like the "D" shape. An English longbow is not "D" shaped in cross section it is nearly round. We know this because there are still real actual English longbows to look at. Howard Hills illustrations in his book show the "D" shape of the cross section of the ASL. Clearly you can see this for yourself.

No where in Hills book did he instruct anyone to make a bow with rectangular cross section. And if you look at any bow built by Howard Hill you see the tapered trapped to the belly,just like he instructs in the book.

Over the many years bowyers have widened and flattened and squared up the edges of "their" bow designs. Same with the round handles and long risers. That is not Hills design. There's way more to a true Hillstyle bow than a leather grip and pretty limb veneers.

On page 91 of Hunting  the Hard way Hill writes about the 3 distinct types of bows. Straight end longbow, short flat bow and composite recurve. He goes on to say some bows are a bastard design having varying combinations of features of all 3.

When Hill refers to straight end longbow he means just that the ends don't curve, he's not talking about the limb profile being backset or string follow.

It pretty obvious when Hill said Semi longbow he was talking about the cross section. The English longbows recovered from the Mary Rose where from 72"-78"
The bow in Hills book illustration of an ASL is 72" long. That's not much difference in length.