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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Craig/FL on July 12, 2007, 09:16:00 PM

Title: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 12, 2007, 09:16:00 PM
I have a source for old files and remember hearing they could make a good knife blade.I have absolutely no experience making knives and wondered if ya'll might know of a site with some directions a beginner could follow. Thought it might be kinda neet to make one and I'm in need of a new one. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Craig
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 12, 2007, 09:20:00 PM
There was a build along on here a few months back on making a blade froma old file. <><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: tmccall on July 12, 2007, 09:50:00 PM
I've wondered about this too!  I'll have to check it out...
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: nockhunter on July 12, 2007, 11:35:00 PM
I've made about 30 knives from files. First anealed the steel (normalised), heat the steel until a magnet will not stick, then burry them in sand to cool (it lets the steel cool slow). Iuse 3-4inches around each file. Grind your pattern, do not turn the steel blue or you will have to aneal again.Only grind close to your final size,you will fine tune after temper. Once you have the pattern you want,heat the blade until a magnet will not stick, quench in 100 deg oil,(I used old jet aircraft oil,I am an aircraft mech)I don't think type matters. Then I use an old toaster oven,heat to 400 deg,(I get about 58-59 rockwel C scale). Now finish your blade, grind and sand to your hearts desire. If you have any questions PM me, I will be happy to help in any way I can. If I get a chance I will post some pics.

Mike
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: OzarkRamblr on July 13, 2007, 02:32:00 AM
What's a good magnet to use? I think I ruined my magnet when I was starting my first one, still working on it BTW. My magnet won't stick to anything now so I don't know if I got my old file where it needed to be or not. Guess I'm going to have to heat it again.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 13, 2007, 05:33:00 AM
nockhunter, Thanks for the detailed instruction, I think I'll get this project started this weekend.
Would definately like to see some pics of your work.
Thanks, Craig
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Bobby Urban on July 13, 2007, 06:21:00 AM
Use an old speaker turned upside down and screwed into a piece of wood you can clamp to your bench or something.  If it is NOT hot enough when you pull it from the fire and lay it onto the magnet you don't want to drag the speaker back into the fire and the first reaction is to reach out with your other hand to grab it.  This is a pain at best and could be disasterous if you touch the hot blade.  

Bob Urban
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 13, 2007, 03:14:00 PM
OK, here my first question ( of many I'm sure). Just how long do you heat the steel? I was burning some branches today and through a file in, after checking it periodically for over an hour its still magnetic, fires good and hot and its sitting in some coals. does it take several hours or did I over do it?. Thanks, Craig
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 13, 2007, 03:56:00 PM
Well I never heated up a file but I have heated steel in my kiln. 1/4 steel in a kiln brick with two small propane torches takes about 5 to 10 mins. For a file get some coals and or wood and keep it in there till it's orange and they try it on the magnet.<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: loyd on July 13, 2007, 04:04:00 PM
it needs to be a bright orange, and if you hang the magnet on a string you can see if its pulling before you hit it. loyd
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: nockhunter on July 13, 2007, 05:10:00 PM
You need to get the steel bright orange about 1400-1500 deg, you might have to add some air to the fire. Some kind of bellows or air forced through a pipe. Try googling knife forges, there are some pretty cool ideas out there.As for a magnet I used the kind that extends, that you keep in your shirt pocket. Don't stick the magnet into the fire pull the file out a bit to see if it sticks.


Mike
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: WESTBROOK on July 13, 2007, 06:33:00 PM
Also you can quench in most any oil, even vegatable oil. The oil just draws the heat out of the blade at a certain rate, as opposed to water or air hardening, diferent rate-different hardnes.

Eric
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 13, 2007, 10:38:00 PM
Looks like in going to definatetly need more heat, all day in the fire pit and still magnetic. Did a little searching around as suggested and found s few ideas. I have an old grill and I'll rig up a way to get some air to it. Looks like this project might get interesting.  Craig
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 13, 2007, 10:57:00 PM
Craig did ya ever think of making knives from sawmill blades? Seems it might be a bit more easy. I know a blade made from a file looks very cool and I am planning trying my hand at one soon. Here are some knives I made from sawmill blades.<><  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/fishrofmen1/DSCN2659.jpg)
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: geno on July 13, 2007, 11:59:00 PM
I am in the middle of my first saw blade knife.I have the blank cut out. and put an edge on it.BTW lowes has a new tool(NEW TO ME) that ia a wet dry electic bench grinder. It is only about 35 bucks.
I put some file work with a chain saw file. I went to lowes to look for some bubinga or cocabola(SP ?) I got a pretty funny look and settled for poplar.I bought an 1/8 th in.  brass rod there for pins. Hey frank what kind of epoxy do you use for your handle and do you stick some on the pin before you tap it in. thanks.There is a good tut. to get you started on the how to post by rgk.how thick are the skins on your knife? Do you use a ban saw?
G
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 14, 2007, 12:11:00 AM
What skins? I use a CA glue that is 99% pure and holds better the 2 ton epoxy IMO. I put some on the pins befoe I whack them.<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 14, 2007, 07:49:00 AM
Sticshooter, those are some beautiful looking knives you made. Would blades for a circular saw work?, always have a few of those laying around.Thanks, Craig
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 14, 2007, 08:05:00 AM
Graig I don't really care for circular saw blades ...not that they don't work I just like sawmill blade. I think I have a ccircular saw blade  cut into a skinner all it needs is to have handles and a edge put on if you or anybody else would like do it?<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: OconeeDan on July 14, 2007, 09:11:00 AM
Frank, is there a good source for sawmill blades?
Geno, if you ask, there is plenty of nice wood floating around here for knife handles.  Also ask your local wood flooring installer, they usually have scraps of nice wood like brazillian cherry, curly maple, purple heart, or walnut.
Dan
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 14, 2007, 09:36:00 AM
Dan you being down south should be able to find some big sawmill blades. As for wood flooring. That middle knife with the wild handle(WILDTHUNG) is flooring. I picked up some bamboo for a friend and seen a bunch of this wood and I asked if they had scraps. The guy cut me a nice piece so I will be making a few more with this stuff. It looks like it has cattail mixed into it. I had to stabilize it with CA glue and it sucked up almost two tubes!<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: fish theotherone on July 14, 2007, 09:47:00 AM
this is a very intresting thread,i like the idea of the circular saw blade for a knife,do they need heat treating? excuse the ignorance but whats special about a file for a blad? i ask as i have a huge file in the shed itd 2 inches accross and 16 inches long!
could one of you guys post a link to the original thread?
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: geno on July 14, 2007, 09:48:00 AM
by skins I meant handle material. Do you cut your antler and bone with a ban saw ? I dont have one but I am going to an auction this am and hopefully
find one..What is ca glue? superglue?
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 14, 2007, 10:13:00 AM
Geno I use a tabletop bandsaw. Ca glue is crazy glue. The stuff I use I get off of E**Y. It's a little pricey but worth it. Just makesure it's the THICK stuff. Some people heat treat the circular saw blades and some don't. If ya don't over heat the steel while cutting the shape it should be fine.<><.
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: jdupre on July 14, 2007, 10:27:00 AM
Nice knives, sticshooter. That chunk of wood they're sitting on looks like a good source for some handle material.
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 14, 2007, 10:39:00 AM
LOL ya like that? That is just a awesome osage stump that I use for pics. Someone sent it to me awhile back and at the moment the name escapes me.<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Emmons on July 14, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
Good information so far.  Take the file to non-magnetic and cool slowly, form your blade and heat to non-magnetic again and quench in oil.


Here is a hiiden tang knife I just finished, it was made from a file.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/JPStangs/DSCN3321.jpg)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/JPStangs/DSCN3320.jpg)

James
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 14, 2007, 11:02:00 AM
Now thats a great looking knife.<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 14, 2007, 01:08:00 PM
Bowhunterinchile that is a great looking knife!

I just cut one out of a circular saw blade, it seems kinda flimsy but looks good and It'll be good practice if nothing else. The handle came out kinda of short, hope I can extend the wood abit. 3" blade and the handles about 3 1/4".
The metal cut easy with my dremal, how much more difficult is a sawmill blade to cut. My tools are limited to a dremel, brench grinder, files and sandpaper for the metal work, is there any other necessities that I may need. Thanks, Craig
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Emmons on July 14, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Craig,

The sawmill blades will be a bit thicker.  But you should not have any problems with the tools you have.  I am limited to files, a dremal, and sandpaper.  No bench grinder yet!!!  The above knife blade is about 5/32" thick, whick I believe is more then most sawmill blades.  Sticshooter will know better on the sawmill blade.  I am still trying to locate some to try.  But I really like the O1 steel and I just found a source to buy it in bar form.

James
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 14, 2007, 10:40:00 PM
Craig A dremel will cut it but it's gonna take awhile. I use a air grinder with a cutoff wheel. Beltsander would make it easier also.<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 15, 2007, 11:41:00 AM
Never thought of useing a belt sander, I happen to have one to.
I have the circular saw blade about done, I beveled the edges but after I sanded the blade there not as pronounced looking as ya'lls. I'll pick up some scrap wood for the handle at work tommarow.
Think I'll try heating that file again today and see if I cant get that thing non magnitized, aint gonna give up on that quite yet. Thanks for everyones help, looks my project might turn into a new hobby, just what I need LOL....Craig
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: fish theotherone on July 15, 2007, 12:08:00 PM
nice knife bowhunterinchile! one day i hope to make my gurt file into a nice blade!
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: geno on July 16, 2007, 10:17:00 AM
What do you guys use for putting on the blade bevel? Do you use some kind of jig or just get better by eye as time goes by? Thanks
G
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Emmons on July 16, 2007, 12:51:00 PM
Geno,

I build a file jig, simular to this one.
http://www.stoneandsteel.net/equip_antirock.html

James
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: geno on July 16, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
thanks bow hunter
G
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: uhdet on July 16, 2007, 01:45:00 PM
Another good source is flat prybars for pulling nails. They are 1/8" to 1/4" thick. They are ususally 5160 or 1080 carbon steel. They make a really tough blade. I get all my 1095 from Admiral Steel. It is already annealed and all I have to do is heat treat then temper.
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Jeremy on July 16, 2007, 02:09:00 PM
I grind my bevels freehand.  I started out doing it freehand with a file, then went to a 6" disk sander, now a 1x30" belt sander.  The final blade finish is still hundrubbed.
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Jeremy on July 16, 2007, 02:11:00 PM
Oh, forgot to say I'm still using a blade made from a file.  That was 14 years ago or so.

uhdet, are you sure the prybars are 5160 or 1080?  I would have thought they were cheaper steel than that.  May have to play around with one...
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: uhdet on July 16, 2007, 03:26:00 PM
That is what a hardware importer told me. They harden and temper as good as my knives made from 1095. I have only used them a couple times but worked well when nothing else could be found. Unless you want to use car leaf springs.
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: sticshooter on July 16, 2007, 06:56:00 PM
I love this stuff!<><
Title: Re: Question for you knife makers
Post by: Craig/FL on July 16, 2007, 08:41:00 PM
That beveling jig looks pretty slick, looks like you could make something like that fairly easy.

What about old lawn mower blades?, I got some of them to