Well....here goes. I've watched you all do it, and I'm tempted to flash to the end of the line to show the finished product, but here goes a build along for a 64" Pronounced TD Longbow for about as cheap as you can do it....and I LOVE IT!
While on business travel I stopped by Binghams (no shipping...but alas, had to pay tax) and bought the plans and instructions (no video - too expensive and lot's of good advice here!!), SmoothOn, 2 0.050 black glass lams (cheaper than clear), one .060 parallel coreflex lam, one .120 tapered coreflex lam and a 1/4" black phenolic chunk. Wanted the 22"x1 1/2" piece but didn't have it so got the 18 inch piece plus another 5" piece. The extra phenolic will be evident later. Also sprung for the 36" piece of 1 1/2inch metal strip. I think my Binghams bill was right at $94. (Also got a piece of red coreflex that I didnt' use - as you'll see, I stuck with basic black and walnut and simple turned out looking GREAT)
With plans in hand, I built the form out of 3/4" particle board shelving from Lowes - it is actually 3/4's of an inch. (Also bought 2 dowels, wedges and the rubber carpet moulding strip for the form work while there) Carefully made one half the form, then glued up the other half and routed it's mate. And by the way...no expensive fire hoses and hot boxes here...we are doing dowels, twine and wedges. Here I am mating the form halves together. (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/formfab3.jpg) :clapper:
And here's the formed glued, screwed, routed and doweled.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/formfab4.jpg)
Note I did add two pieces of wood on each side to hold the limb in place during glue up.
One thing I didn't buy, nor did I take photos of, was I made my own wedges out of 1/4" hard wood from Lowes and a jig I made for my belt sander. I can show that if anyone is intersted. Wish I'd made the parallel part a little longer, but will explain that later....
Any way, I went for the glue up as directed. Arranged the parts - and checked them twice. Cleaned surfaces with acetone then mixed the SmoothOn. Laid plastic wrap on the form, then fiberglass, parallel lam, wedge, tapered lam and belly fiberglass lam - and all with about twice as much epoxy as I probably needed. Folded the plastic wrap over the mess, topped with the rubber carpet molding strip I'd cut to fit and laid on the metal strip. Then, similar to the longbow buildalong in TBM last fall, I criss-crossed twine along the entire length of the mold. Once in place and positioned, I slide the wedges under the "X"'s of the twine, and went up and down the mold sliding them in tighter and tighter until it felt even. Could use a little practice here, glue lines ended up a little tighter in one limb than the other. Now here's the benefit of living in the south, threw that "puppy" in the old Volvo in the driveway on a hot spring day. Got up to a 122 degrees on day one - left the form in there for 24 hours. Day 2 got to 132. Now that summer is here, bet 140 plus would be no problem. Here's a photo of limb 1, and limb 2 in the form. Cheers, Steve
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/formandlimb1.jpg) :pray:
Ya think I got enough glue!?!?!?
Also, note that 1 1/2" masking tape is actually 1.4 inches or some such - I taped the outer surfaces of the glass lams, but still got epoxy down each edge - won't make that mistake again. I'm sure I've forgotten stuff, so ask. Good Night!
Very nice pics and explanation.http://tradgang.com/noncgi/icons/icon12.gif
Very cool! Now I'm waiting patiently for the next installment.
Those aren't glue boogers...that's downright glue pneumonia :biglaugh:
Be sure and wear gloves sanding that glue off, that stuff wil slice you like a razor blade.
SOS, you beat me to it! I am getting ready for a similar build along.... I was going to call it Junk Yard Dog, Dirt Cheap. When you order from Binghams, they package the lams in action boo. I am planning a cheap form and a Hill style bow, clear glass though (I love wood, so I am going to spring for the extra $5). Some leftover walnut and smooth on from my last bow... I will be paying attention to this one so I can pick up some other good hints.
Semper Fi,
Mike
One thing I might mention, is Bingham said if you want a shorter limb, follow the plan but just start the butt end closer to the nock. I think I moved mine 1 1/2 inches and it is coupled with a riser 2 inches shorter than the plan.
With the limbs formed, I used a bandsaw to cut most of the "Glue phlegm" (thanks, Ferret!) off and a belt sander to cut it down just to the edge of the limbs. Besides sharp, with all the sanding, use a dust mask or you'll be coughing up real phlegm and waking up your spouse, Meanwhile, I took my next cheap piece of bowmaking material, the lovely walnut riser block I got out of a wood working buddy's scrap box. Cost....FREE! It was 16 inches long and I ripped about where I thought the locator grip would hit and glued in the black phenolic. This is where I wanted the 22 inch long phenolic, so I would have leftover for overlays. No such luck, so I had to buy the extra. Word of advice on glue stacks for the riser, clamp appropriately to make a good glue line, but then also clamp boards down the length to keep the parts from sliding out of square...oopps. Wonder how I learned that? :readit:
Later - Steve
Very cool so far!! Keep it up! Shawn
Lookin good! When ya glue up your riser block,apply glue,wrap in saran wrap, and clamp a couple blocks the other way first to prevent slippage, then clamp as usual. Works for me anyway! :thumbsup:
Thanks, Kenny....nnoooowwwww you tell me!
This is cool! Looking forward to the rest of it.
Love these build-a-longs. Looking good.
MORE PLEASE!<><
You do know that if it turns out cool I am going to want one. :bigsmyl: <><
This is better than watching the New Yankee Workshop. And I really dig that show.
I'm glad to see people are using the rope and wedges method to glue up fiberglass bows. It's a little time consuming, but cheap and works pretty well. I read about it in a Primitive Archer article about 4-5 years ago written by Kay Koppedreyer (sp?), something the Japanese used for centuries.
Jason
Looks great. Keep it coming
I am dieing here, waiting for the next installment. your build along is looking great. its getting me pumped to try one too.
I would like to see a pic or two of your sanding jig, if you can. Thanks, by the way. You make it look easy.
Not too much time tonight, but we'll do a little. I'm afraid the photo's are a little scant at this point for a couple of reasons - 1) was having too much fun building and forgot to take pictures and 2) hard to take photos when running table saws and drill presses....SORRY!
Anyway, once your pads are cut and your limb butts are evened up, time for the testy job of drilling holes. Again, since this is El Cheapo, we "ain't gonna spring for no $50 drilling jig." Going to carefully position the limbs an even distance from the end of the riser, think mine were 4 1/2 inches and carefully align and clamp the limb to the riser. Without a jig, a drill press is almost a must...I guess. I rotated the table to 11 degrees to match the angle of the limb pad and drilled the 5/16" hole according to the position on the Bingham's plans, then moved to teh other side and did the same with the other limb. Don't worry about the pin yet. Now is time to put the threaded inserts in the riser. You can buy fancy ones from Binghams that are tapped into the riser, or go to Lowe's and get them for about a buck a piece...so off to Lowe's. Using the drill press and the 5/16" pilot hole already drilled, I enlarged the hole to the OD of the insert, not including the threads. Made sure the holes were deep enough to completely seat the insert. Since these inserts have very thin threads, I counter bored the holes just an 1/8" or so at the OD of the threads to help guide the insert in the hole straight and let the threads "bite" without breaking out wood. These inserts have groves for a big ole screwdriver but a better way is to get 5/16 X 1 1/2" hex head bolt and nut. Run the nut on the bolt then spin on the insert - the bolt should be about flush with the bottom. Put a tiny piece of masking tape across the bottom to keep epoxy out, then mix up a dab of any epoxy, I used Devcon 2-Ton in the syringes. Clamp the riser in the vice and
smear a little epoxy on the threads - don't need much or it will go everywhere. Take a socket and rachet and put A LOT of downward pressure on the wrench as you drive the insert in - help force it in and keeps the threads from gouging/drilling out the hole. Crank it in until the nut on the bolt is flush with the wood.
Thank goodness...finally a picture!
:scared:
Now for the first time is a fun part...take another sip of gin and tonic...it's hot in the garage, and bolt on the limbs and pretend it is a bow!!! YAY!
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/rawprofile.jpg) :D
Now lay the bow on one side or the other on a flat surface and see which side seems to line up the limbs and the riser the best. If you are a really talented wood worker, they should both be close...if your me one side seemed best. Once you get it all lined up, tighten down the limb bolts and put a 1/4 inch drill in the drill press. Once again, used dimensions from Binghams. Doing the drill through method, I don't think it has to be super precise, but I guess you don't want to look like an idiot either. On drilling the insert holes and the pin holes, I used the old masking tape depth gage on the drill so I didn't go too deep. Once the pin holes are drilled, rough up one end of the pin and epoxy it in... and this is where you are!
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/riserinsertslimbs.jpg)
Bad news is - I had to leave on business about this time. Talk about withdrawals! Good news is, it was to Denver and by abusing the rental car was able to enjoy stuff like this:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/105_2023.jpg)
and this:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/105_2029.jpg)
Things could be worse! Good night, Steve
Elk Ninja...an extra $5 for clear glass!?!! Are you insane? Then you have to spend fifteen or twenty more dollars for good looking wood laminations to see through that clear glass. You obviously aren't an engineer...you t'aint cheap enough! :biglaugh:
cthorness, were you interested in the wedge sanding jig?
Quoteposted by SOS:
by abusing the rental car was able to enjoy stuff like this:
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
ALL very very nice! Keep going on please!
OK I want one! :readit: :bigsmyl: :goldtooth: :biglaugh: And please no more I forgot the pics.<><
Steve,
We need a $$ figure on your consumed materials.... some of the things you've purchased can be used on the next bow you build...just how cheap is your bow?? :archer:
Lobo in West Virginia
This is very cool!! How much time and I mean actually working on the bow time do you have in it at this point? Great Job!! Shawn
I realized somewhere in here I lined up the limbs with a weighted string, marked the limb tips so the string crossed the center of the riser, laid out the limbs and used an old band saw blade and a fresh belt on the sander to rough out the limbs. And yes....can't find any photos of that!
Time to glue some overlays over the holes in the limb butts and on the front of the riser as well. First thing is don't throw anything away. When you cut the angle for the limb pads, you end up with 6-7" wedges of riser wood - walnut here. A little magic with the band saw:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/cutoverlay2.jpg)
and here:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/Cutwedgeoverlay.jpg)
and you have some overlays. Set up a sanding drum on your $33 drill press from Harbor Freight, clamp a piece of wood for a fence, and sand your overlays smooth.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/drumsandoverlay.jpg) :thumbsup:
Slice up the wedges into overlays, keep the leftover glass from the limbs and any little chunks of phenolic, and you can do all sorts of stuff.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/leftoverdontdiscard.jpg)
I shaped some walnut for the limb overlays - made it angled for an "artistic" touch. Now I planned to make my limb bolts like on my ChekMate bows instead of using beveled washers. Just like the look...and gotta be different. So epoxied on the walnut followed by partially shaped chunks of phenolic:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/phenolicoverlay.jpg)
While this was curing, I sanded the front of the riser to a smooth arc then epoxied/clamped an overlay of limb black glass and walnut to the front. Meanwhile I had traced the shape of the riser and limbs and started playing with a pencil deciding on shape. I wanted a good locator grip for shooting consistency yet try and keep a little smooth longbow shape to the riser - not too big, dramatic or bold like some recurve riser. Settled on a shape and band sawed it once the overlays had cured. Also drilled out the limb bolt holes and used a countersink to match the limbbolt diameter. I found that I had to play with the countersink as the angle on the bolt doesn't match the countersink...strange!
Here's the roughed out product!
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/roughedriser.jpg)
Looking good! :thumbsup:
Shawn, I'm not sure of the time I've put into it. A lot cuz it's been fragmented and I'm learning and playing. I figure based on my billable hour's at work, this things gotta be worth about twice a Black Widow with nice wood! :biglaugh:
Teacher, I'll try and add up everything at the end and divide it up with materials that actually went into the bow and stuff I can reuse.
Gotta go, my bride called upstairs, but she did say to brag about how well the bow is shooting....you'll just have to wait on photos.
;)
Steve
Steve,don't know how much you'll have in the bow,butthe first deer pic with your new bow will be priceless!!
Lookin good,my friend! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Yup, best build-a-long on here in a long time! Very nicely one! Shawn
Its really looking neat. Now break is over get to it. More pics!
Com'on I KNOW YA GOT MORE PICS,you're holdin out! :D
c'mon already :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: PICS!LOL<><
Can't wait! Really is coming together! Hey, if you wouldn't mind I would like to see some plans for the sanding jig for the wedges. Cheers, Matt
Another look, this a first brace:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/lowbracestrung.jpg)
And this is first draw:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/rawdrawn.jpg)
Guess this photos should have come right before the roughed out riser....oops....again.
I'll work on getting some photos of my "custom adjustable wedge grinder" - can you say, "Hi-Tech, Baby!"?
And someone asked me another time, why the nice grass except for huge dead spot right there! That is courtesy of a 15 year old, sweet'ol fat black lab that is too lazy to make it to the natural areas anymore. That is the closest grass to the back door. We're just glad she's still with us so I gave up trying to get her any farther! Here she is after a fresh roll in the sand on a camping trip 3 months ago! Ought to bottle that urine and give RoundUp a run for their money! :p
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/103_1998.jpg) :)
I could probably have cut my nocks down some more, but I stink at shaping nocks and I got them where the looked smooth and even. I can always whack on them some more later. Only have B50 string material, but would like to try one of the non-stretchy types. One photo's blurry, sorry.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/blurrynock.jpg)
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/nock.jpg)
Contructive (or even obnoxious) criticism welcome on nock shapes....or any part from that matter. At worst you'll hurt my feelings and I'll try. Best, I'll get better at this stuff! :bigsmyl:
Time for more sanding on the riser and some shaping of the limbbutts. Thanks to everyone that posted their TD longbow riser photos a couple of weeks ago. Helped me decide where to go with mine. I'm not too good at this artistic shtuff!
I like the nocks, they are a nice even look!! If ya do not keep it, send it my way. It would be a keeper in my book!! Nice Job!! Shawn
This is not criticism at all,see where your string makes the bend comin off the nock? That is where your string will wear,I know cause my nocks look just like that most times!! LOL
Looks like a very good cheapo bow!! GOOD JOB,I love cheap bows!
Kenny,
Should I just round that corner off some more or try to cut the whole thing at a sharper angle? Anyone have photos...guess I could look at my own bows! :knothead:
I like to make a curve thru there so there is no sharp corner,don't know if thats right,just the way I like to do it!
Does this look better on the nocks? I think so, you just get worried that you don't know when to stop filing. I don't want to string it up to look at it cuz the wood gets full of wax.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/105_2159.jpg)
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/105_2162.jpg)
May need to even it up a little, but getting there.
I'm no expert,but that looks like it'll be a lot easier on strings! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I'm no expert,but that looks like it'll be a lot easier on strings! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Oops,stuttered a little!
Yup, looks good. I cannot wait to see the finished product! Shawn
Got the nocks redone and refinished and here they are for comparison. Thanks for noting the problem - would hate to blow up my new bow prematurely!
Here's the original followed by the new string angle - looks much better!
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/nock.jpg)
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/nockredo3.jpg)
Sweet!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Not El Cheapo!! FRUGAL is Best. :thumbsup: Makes it More Exotic Sounding, ya think? :rolleyes: :thumbsup: Looks Darn Good to Me! You are doing a Fine Job there Partner!! :archer:
SOS, Yeah I'd like photos for the grinding jig. I got the rough idea I think -- but I'd like to see how someone has put one together. Thanks
Man, I have never had a nock come out looking that good. Nice work!
Steve, you done good, man! Would love to see you take a bear or hog with it at Cohutta this fall!
Dan
I finished sanding and shaping the riser. Finished with several coats of satin wipe on poly. From threads I read shortly after I started coating, maybe should have tried the "Massey" finish - 2 hour epoxy cut with about 5 parts acetone or MEK. Oh well! I finished off the limb pads with some thin stick-on felt from the craft store. Tried to find really thin cork, but no luck. Will finish the limbs next.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/risercloseup.jpg)
On the limbs, I did put a light coat of walnut stain on just the laminations so they weren't so stark in contrast - came out a pretty good match - but a personal preference.
Here it is coming together. Here's one thing I did different which could use a little fine tuning, but I like the overall look of the limb mounts. Different (and more work) than just the beveled washers and bolts.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/lblimbmount.jpg)
I kind of tried to copy the limbmount on my ChekMate bows and got close! Like I said earlier, had to play with the countersink - just did not seem to match the angle of the flat head cap screws.
Here she is put together!
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/lbstrung1.jpg)
And an overall photo. :bigsmyl:
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/lbstrung3.jpg)
To be honest - came out way better than I thought I could do.
And it hasn't broken!
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/lbform1.jpg)
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/lbdrawn.jpg)
It shoots smooth and close to center cut so, even though I haven't worked on the perfect arrow, it shoots the handfull of different one I have quite well. It seems quiet - if you are really bored, you can watch this video of two swing draws and 2 straight draws.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/th_105_2155.jpg) (http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/?action=view¤t=105_2155.flv)
Looks nice,is the riser stained in the last pic? I LIKE that color!
Edit,Must be the light,its already finished!!
Steve, good looking bow. I have been wanting to build a takedown longbow.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
WELL WHAT CAN I SAY? WOWZERS :eek: YA DONE A AWESOME JOB YA CHEAPSKATE :bigsmyl: !lol<><
hey that is real nice fine job sir congrats :thumbsup: :clapper:
Very Nice. Bow came out great.
Great Thread :knothead:
Man this whole thread is awesome. Makes a guy wanna give it a shot. Great job all the way around, and very nice looking bow.
Great tghread and greater bow. I really enjoyed staying with this one. Very nice work and Congrats on a fine bow!! Shawn
Very nice bow. The nocks are a tough part of the bow to figure out and finish and keep them from cutting the strings. You did a good job on them.
Jason
Nice job Steve! I really like the looks of that riser as well as the entire bow. Neat movie too. Do shoot better with a swing draw or straight draw? The bow sounds nice and quiet too. Sometimes when I think a bow is loud I'll record myself shooting it. It usually sounds alot quieter if you are not holding it. Now do me a favor and take a picture of the bow along with that awesome knife you made a while back. Thanks, Mike
KennyM, the walnut in the riser and overlays is just natural with wipe-on poly - not the waterbased.
Bodork, I will take a photo of the two as soon as I sand out the handle on the knife. The poly did not do well on the bocote handle - plus I had to get a little pig blood off of it, YAY! I sanded it down and slathered on some leftover smoothon I had from the bow thinned with acetone. Should have thinned it a little more - LOL - so I need to smooth and buff it out. Will post photo later - thanks for remembering the knife.
Steve
Really nice job and love the handle shape. Man that rounded look at the so called fades is way cool. Very good job. Quite dependable and as you said frugal! LOL! It also reminded me that I have a long bow project that I bought about 20 years ago,I cant even remember how long ago from Binghams. I have the oven standing built and standing on end in storage. The metal backing strip I saw and moved out of the floor today while making a kids bow in my new trailer box converted shop, and the tapers are on the top shelf lain out flat . The glue is long since been thrown away but I guess I could get more.I have the air hose and the metal brkts. that came with the form kit. I also have two oak boards glued together for the form but not shaped as of yet. The plans are for a straight long bow though, don't think reflex was with us then. You have flat sparked my interest. Thanks so much for showing your project. I'm starting tomorrow digging all my junk out! I'll post on a new thread later. Thanks and again good job DUDE!!!
Bodork,
Here's the photo, still need to polish out the epoxy on the knife handle, but it feels better on the bocote than the wipe-on poly. Dang the black stripes on the handle go well with those on the bow....boy, that was accidental...but works! And to a couple of others, still need to post photos of the El Cheapo Wedge grinder. Steve
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/lbwknife3.jpg)
Id love to see the wedge grinder. Ive never found a full proof way yet but then again im a newbe lol
really good job!! looks mavalousss
nice bow and great idea with the drill press and fence. Have you ever ground full laminations with that set up?
John
John,
I havent' ground a lamination by this method, but someone has a set up either here or on leather wall. Search for lamination grinders or post a new thread. That's how I knew to use a similar set-up to smooth the overlays. The riser in this thread cracked/shattered on an accidental dry fire because I cut too far into the phenolic with the grip throat...oops. It now has an action wood riser which hopefully will be bullet proof. I love the bow, have taken two deer with it in its first season - including a doe this morning....now what to do with the ChekMates hanging on the wall gathering dust...
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/PHTO0010.jpg)
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/SOS_321/Doe1.jpg)
Congrats , very nice bow :0)
Great job, the bow and knife look beautiful!! Lookslike it shoots nice to. I liked the video