Well, there was a thread about "Grizzly vs. Concret" and someone mentioned a tailgate (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=046620;p=2) and spasms etc. - and unfortunately I had a tailgate at hand - so, why not?! And here it is, my "Grizzly vs. Tailgate" broadhead fun testing.
Q: Does this have anything to do with Trad Bowhunting?
A: Yes, I think so and will explain in my text ...
First picture shows my "arrangement", distance for all my shooting is about 22 yards.
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_01.jpg)
Below are some practise shots, because I have not shot my Kodiak T/D for weeks. Difficult to see, but you might notice a blue plastic ring, 3" in diameter, hold in place by an old arrow shaftment?! That's my usual target. I misplaced the third arrow a little but I can't complain about the first and second I suppose :D
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_05.jpg)
Okay, below are the candidates:
a) 160W Ribteks on 23/64" Hex-Shafts, used for practise and only the very tip resharpened and "tanto-ed"
b) 160gr Grizzly on 11/32" Birch
OOOOHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I get CRAAAAYZY!!!
While I am writing THIS, my wife came home - presenting me with parts of her new tailgate (!) - which I had replaced for the one here in this thread only three days ago!!!
This time some bloddy §%&/**³³K" hit it with his car in the parking lot at her work - damaging both, lights and tailgate - and drove on - not even leaving a notice - criminal A§%**/(/?W; ! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Okay, I had a look outside! I feel sooo sick! It seems like I'll have lots of fun with a "Bhds vs. Tailgate Part II" :( Unbeliveable!
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well - I try to settle down now - and continue with what I had planed ...
Candidates:
a) 160W Ribteks on 23/64" Hex-Shafts, used for practise and only the very tip resharpened and "tanto-ed"
b) 160gr Grizzly on 11/32" Birch shafts, hunting sharp with tanto tip
c) SilverFlame-165 on 2317, abused many times, very tip long ago ground off, not resharpened, only tip "tanto-ed" for this test
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_03.jpg)
I'll shoot these five arrows into the tailgate and we'll see what happens! In fact I did so this afternoon and am done with it and pics are ready. I had planed to post all this in single file but for some reason I am not in the right mood now ...
I'll come back tomorrow with things like:
Will the woodies break?
Might the single bevel of the Grizzly have any effect?
What damage can be seen on blades and ferrules?
Will there be a second part of all this?
Falk
Wonderful barn, Falk! Look forward to seeing the test results. Real bummer about the car...
I was wondering if some curious horse-nose might poke its way out the door and throw your shot off! Bloody rotten about the tailgate, but your wife told you the same story I would have told my husband. ;) :rolleyes:
Killdeer :archer:
Thanks for your heads up guys and girls! And Killy, that's about what I said to her when she told me. She was wise enough to call the police and was able to show me the paperwork ...!
But Yes, if it wasn't for the time of year, all doors at the right would have been filled with noses. In fact, the nose right to the bales nosed it's way pretty fast into them :mad: until the supporting neck fell short :) They are outside now, of course. I'll go there and include a picture of them too if you wish.
Here you go:
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/noses_01.jpg)
Well, so I shot all arrows into that thing, as I said:
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_07.jpg)
Notice what the shafts are doing. Those far left and right are the Grizzlies ...
With the SilverFlame I hit a "hard spot". Two sheets of metal, spotwelded etc. It therefor failed to penetrate, stopping at the ferrule, wedged into the metal.
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_08.jpg)
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_09.jpg)
Of course I had to try for an other one here. Markus wouldn't be pleased if I didn't, don't you think? So here is my second attempt:
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_18.jpg)
Complete penetration, way into the bales. It is the same SilverFlame which was locked before, it was not resharpened between both shots and it was still perfectly straight.
Now, that all arrows went in, lets see what they did:
The wooden shafts are still intact! I had expectet a loss of 50% at least. The Grizzlies penetrated into the bale, the Ribteks a little less. One of the latter was stopped by a second layer of metal but the other went only very little more in.
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_12.jpg)
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_13.jpg)
The second attempt with SilverFlame and Alum arrow had the best penetration of all tried.
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_20.jpg)
Interesting to see, that the blade rotated an other 90° after going trough the tailgate, before it halted. The shaft was wedged and could not be moved, so I am quite sure of this.
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_21.jpg)
Thank you for the horse-break. The mare in the middle is beautiful!
What I see in your test is that just about any broadhead is suitable for killing Opels, but shot placement is, of course, essential. (My husband was driving an Opel GT when I met him. I dated him anyway.) I was happy to see that hitting an Opel's rib did not cause any deformation of the Silver Flame. Could you repeat that test with the Grizzly?
Finally, as most of us love to hunt one specific animal, and I think you know what it is, can you perhaps retest ALL of your broadheads on a dead cow? Looking forward to the results, which, judging from what I have seen of your broadhead collection, should be publishable in say, 2013, Easton Gamegetter Time.
Killdeer :wavey:
Lets focus on detail. See the different patterns in threating the metal by different bhds and/or shafts. The pic below has the Grizzly left and two Ribteks right. The single bevel Grizzly went in forcing the metal outwards on one side and depressing it in on the other. (The same with the other Grizzly, not pictured.)
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_10.jpg)
With Ribteks either side followed the shaft!
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_11.jpg)
Close up on the Grizzly shaft. Note the slightly rotated apperance of the cut. It is caused by the single bevel twisting motion so often refered to in the Ashby reports.
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_15.jpg)
Close up on SilverFlame shaft
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_19.jpg)
Even though the SilverFlame went in dragging one side and forcing the other out, I think this was primary caused by the angle the tailgate was hit. Refer to the inside view one post above to see that it made just a straight cut.
Conclusions and discussion:
None of the shafts could have been pulled! I had to use a hammer and chisle in every case to open the cut! Only the Grizzlies had some "freedom" and the shaft could be moved but the blade would not get through backwards. Refer to the very first picture with all shafts in it: you'll see that only the Grizzlies are hanging - feathers down! They had an advantage of slightly less diameter shafts, yes, but I am convinced the single bevel gave them an edge in the first place.
The alum shaft was not cut or dented by the metal like the wooden shafts. This made deeper penetration possible even though it is about 10% leighter in overall weight.
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_17.jpg)
The Ribteks were dull before and only changend very little. Points are okay and no bend or other flaws can be found. One of the Grizzly has the very tip a tiny little bit bend out of alignment! The former shaving sharp edge is gone, but no serious effect to the edge occured. The many times before abused SilverFlame is straight and more ore less nothing changed along it's edge. Having the hardest steel of all this is no big surprise.
All broadheads passed the test, small diameter shafts would have made "pass throughs" possible and as Killdeer said above, all are suitable to kill Opels ;) I had some fun in "killing" it and was afterwards still able to concentrate for two more shoots and managed to hit my marks this time :D
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/bowpics/Broadheads/Technik/Omega/Bhds_vs_Omega_23.jpg)
Thanks for your patience!
Falk
And for a special person an other picture of the "nose" who likes to feed on my target butt:
(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/noses_02.jpg)
She is called "Nicandra" and mother of the black male foal which comes my way in the first pic. The brown one is the female foal from the mare behind the tree. Both foals are about one year now, she a little more him a little less. These are Trakehner thoroughbreds.
BTW: I would have loved to use the dead cow my neighbour had "laying around" few weeks ago instead of our car, really! They had different plans with her though. Maybe next time, but you'll need to wait a little longer - maybe 2514 Easton standard time - before I use my collection for it :smileystooges: :knothead:
Cheers,
Falk
:campfire:
Good stuff Falk. Thanks for all that.
What a hoot! And a horse fix for Killy!
"drove an opel and dated him anyway" Good thing, Killy. Cause ya both done good in your choices! :)
That was great Falk! Thanks for sharing.
looks like a record book opel if you ask me. thanks for sharing the info and photos. Killy you crack me up....
Beautiful barn and a fun experiment. Some fine shooting if those rings in the last target are shot at 22 yards.
Fascinating! I find it very interesting that despite your unconventional target medium, another test suggests there is something to the single bevel.
I thourghly enjoyed every minute of that!!!!! must have made some racket busting through that metal.
Thank you very much!!
Killi, I agree, that is a beautiful mare!!!!!
Your test makes me think of how useless the shields of old where agains war bows....
Glad you all liked it and find some value in it. The "barn" lacks some of her beauty if you get closer, but anyway I am happy to have such a work shop (left side). The stable side is under direct controll of my wife and only if anything has to be done it's "mine".
Chuck, yes, 22 yards. Once in a while I can shoot my bow. But don't ask what all I've messed up in the past with targets even bigger then Opels! A shame!
And BTW Tim - blame you! You sold me the Grizzlies some 3 years ago :D
Forgot some tech datas I suppose:
Bow: Cust. Kodiak T/D, B-riser, #3-Fascore-limbs, 68#@28"
2317 Camo Hunter, SilverFlame 165, 608gr
wood arrows range around 670gr
Falk, I thought maybe that I had, but many Grizzlies have come and gone since then so I was not sure! :knothead:
I do find your observations on the single bevel fascinating. I recently switched my Grizzly arrows to right wing after many years of left, and I seem to be getting even better results than before.
A Killdeer Special
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Killy, when I go to the horses it's about 250 yards to the pasture. Half way is something which will make you cry - I promise !
:rolleyes: :cool: :p
Are you a brave girl?! Then scroll down - on your own risk!
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(http://www.broadheads.de/Bilder/Foren/TradGang/GT-Wreck.jpg)
Opel GT's are definately almost extinct, but here lives a GIRL which has one in deep dark purple metalic - I missed that one and had to take a pic of the wreck used for spare-parts. Sorry!
I am convinced "it" was able in a VW Bug - but how someone can ever manage "it" in an Opel GT - is out of my mind ...! :o
:goldtooth:
And so now you know how proper we were on our dates! I will have to scan and send you a copy of the picture I have of Clark's car.
Trakehners are the ne plus ultra of three phase eventing, in my estimation. These warm-bloods have size, strength, hybrid vigor, intelligence and the good temperament to make a strong, solid, yet fluid performer. You are so lucky to have them around, you must have picked a verrrry smart wife!
Killdeer :archer:
Great story and pics, not sure you are going to compete with Dr Ashby :D
Killdeer that must have been quite a step up, dating a guy with a car :jumper:
Brent
Falk you never cease to amaze me. Great knowledge, good shooting, great findings, and you own horses; Outstanding! I think the tailgate is dead by the way!I thank for a great thread!
Bored ay. thanks, for the findings jonesy
I have never been an admirer of cars. I started out well, dated a guy with a horse. It was in my declining years that I found myself seeing a guy with an automobile. :(
Killdeer
Thanks for the many smiles. You made my evening. Beautiful horses.
Dave in Ft. Collins, CO
Killy, my wife smart? Hmmm? Yes, but two times she failed:
1) ... she sayed "yes" when I "asked" her one day (and I still know the very date!)
2) ... a decade later she damaged the car ;)
Trakehner horses are a nice breed, of course. I cant complain to much I suppose?! But give them one shovel of oats to much and they'll react like a coilspring. Scary!
Bentpole,
... not on purpose, not on purpose! But certainly glad you think so :wavey:
Falk
Falk I also shoot Ribteks 190g there to me one of the better head around.
Cody
Falk,
Very funny and creative....and interesting too!
With the recently available updates from Dr. Ashby I thought it might be fun to bring this to the top again - not to steal something from Doc Ed, but to give an example of single bevel performance.
The best news of all is though, that the Opel will soon be gone and history! Hopefully!
:D Falk
What kind of oil trail was left from that Opel? Were you able to track it? Spurting oil or just a steady drip?
Falk really enjoyed the story but the barn really brought memories of a house and barn combo all house now.My wife and I stayed with a couple for a week in Dubuy,Belgium in 1988 had a great time.shot his bows,air guns and did kayaking and bike riding and drank some brown beer.Thanks for the memories.Kip
Falk, vielen Dank für Bringen dies hinter auf. Ich habe es das erstes Mal verpasst. Es sieht aus, wie deutsche Männer als viel Unheil gegeben einige Freizeit und etwas Bogenschießenausrüstung machen können. :bigsmyl: Ich entschuldige mich, wenn mein Deutsch arm ist, ist es eine Klotz Zeit und gewesen, den ich mich auf einem Englisch/deutschem Wörterbuch verlassen musste.
You should revisit that tailgate with front loaded carbons. A Gold Tip 5575 with 500 grains up front may well bury up to the fletching.
a Texas heart shot on an Opal?? Say it isn't so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!