Guys i am starting to get some serious shoulder pain in my left shoulder (i shoot right handed) i dont think anything but shooting could have done it. it dosent bother me much when i shoot but everything else seems to hurt right on the top outermost part of the shoulder. I dont think its muscular as it sometimes clicks. I shoot fairly light recurves for the most part up to about 55lbs, but am not sure what to do.
I was wondering if anyone else has got something similar and what they have done about it. Please help, i havent been shooting trad that long to do too much damage i dont think, and have only started shooting regularly 2 and a half months ago but that was still limited mostly to weekends as i live in New York City.
any help thoughts would be appreciated.
Don
friend take it from me, im 21 and have had 2 shoulder surgeries in the past 3 year with approx 22mo of therapy. Get it checked out by a doc asap. My shoulder problems came from a car accident, but my shoulder was ripped out of socket tearing muscle and ligament away from bone. first 6mo of therapy befor my first surgery(doc's orders) ground my bone flat in 2 places(bone damage was fixed in second surgery)...bottom line, dont wait until a small problem becomes big.
take care.
Pintail
See your Doctor. May be as simple as starting some simple physical therapy to strengthen your shoulder muscles to needed to surgury to repair and/or clean up the shoulder joint.
By no means am I an expert, but have bustom up both shoulders and experiencing years of pain I suggest making a Doctor appt. and see what's going on.
I agree see a doc. And then move out of the city! :bigsmyl: <><
Odds are the condition causing the pain already existed and the shooting is just bringing it out front. You could have too many things to list. See a doctor and get it checked out.
Ditto on the Doc. You likely have an impingement that can be treated by physical therapy. The main thing you want to make sure of is that you do not have a tear. You might want to take it easy with that bow until you understand the problem...you don't want to make the problem worse.
Claudia
Yep, you need to check it out, got to see a doc myself this week. A repair from 15 years ago is acting up again. Two surgeries have taken me from 90# to 60#, age has taken me down to
50-55#.
You don't sound like you want to drop any lower and I know I don't.
Sounds like my impingement. Good PT helped me greatly. See a doc but insist on PT before they try cutting, if at all possible. And when formal PT is over, keep up the exercises on your own, or you'll be sorry.
Thanks guys not what i wanted to hear as i tend to put things like this off as long as possible but i think i will go with the collective on this one.
d
Yup see a doctor. I am about to have shoulder surgery on the 29th. of this month. I was assured today that I will be shooting up to a fifty pound bow within 6 weeks as long as I heed the docs. advice. I fell from a tree(Screw in step broke)and dislocated my right shoulder over a year and a half ago. It was put back in and seemed to heal fine, but I kept having re-occurring pain. I had a MRI recently and I have a slight tear in my rotatar and a tear in my labrum. I could go on and live like I have been (in pain constantly) or listen to my doctor and have the surgery. Take the advice from all on here and see a doctor, you will be better off in the long run. Shawn
Don... GO TO THE DR.!
I put it off for a long time... military... flying status... wanted to keep doing it...
Had surgery two months ago. Under the knife 5 1/2 hours. Doc used 7 pins. Six weeks in a sling. Been doing PT two weeks. I could go on...
GO TO THE DR.! PT is your first option. The knife is last. Lots in between.
Good luck and report back.
Dingus
Yep, putting it off just prolongs the pain and suffering and makes things worse. My last diagnosis was Impingement and it was so simple to cure. Several weeks of PT and then continue the excercises at home. Finally joined a health club last fall to build those shoulder and back muscles back up.
before you go see regular doctors try some acupunture !!!! those guys will send you for surgerys even if you don't need them, I got all kinds of sports related shoulder injuries in my life.
...tore both rotator cuffs, and some. I'm 40 and still shoot a 80# bow no worrys, Thanks to acupunture.
...Hell you're in N.Y. plenty chinese there :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
Don,
Your problem does sound like shoulder impingement. I suffer from it from time to time, myself. It always seems to hit before a big hunt. The very best way to get better from impingement is simply not to use it. No amount of stretching or "working it out" will help. Just make yourself keep it at your side and avoid raising it above your waist for 1-2 weeks and it will probably go away. All that said there are more serious or at least long lasting shoulder/rotator cuff issues that can also present like your shoulder problem, so if it isn't better in a week or so get in to see your doctor.
Shoulder impingement? "No amount of stretching will help"? I have to respectfully disagree.
If one doesn't move the soft tissue of the body (slow, even movements), I feel you will do more harm you than good. In the case of a shoulder, I can see a "frozen shoulder" developing.
In the case of a soft tissue (muscle, tendon or ligament) shoulder injury, you're looking for stability / tone ... for both the shoulder joint, and shoulder girdle. Remember, tight tissue is not necessarily strong tissue.
Also, in a "at home rehabilitation program", many folks don't try or don't know how to balance the tissues....front to back... side to side...balance. If one side is tight...stretch it. On the weak side...strengthen it!
I am an advocate for stretching. Stretching done correctly is not done fast (there is no such thing as a quick fix). Stretching, done with purpose, will greatly help to "open up" the area / tissues causing the impingement (if – in this case - that is what it is... an impingement).
Standard orthopedic functional assessment tests can help the rule out many concerns. See your local ortho, not just a general physican.
Concerning stretching: The problem? Many folks just do passive stretches... and then over do it / overstretch and cause more harm.
Does a muscle/tendon problem go away? Answer: IMHO... no, not really. Just think of it this way: Your wife might forgive you for your blunders, but .... she doesn't forget anything. So, in the case of a soft tissue injury ... the body doesn't forget your errors either. Everything adds up.
DoctorBrady... respectfully, may I suggest you call Mr. Aaron Mattes, one of my mentors, and the developer of Active Isolated Stretching (AIS). We can all learn something new ...each and every day.
Sincerely,
David Bartholomew
www.stretchingusa.com (http://www.stretchingusa.com)
Totally agree, a consistent regimen of Yoga/stretching done properly is the best long time way to keep your body functioning properly.
.....Preventing is always better than curing.
David,
The problem with stretching in a true impingement is that if you continue to impinge the tendon against bone, the problem will not be relieved but worsened. The inflammation, and thus the pain will not improve. You can not effectively stretch the bony acromion process which is causing the impingement. This is not to say that any type of stretching will worsen the condition, but stretching to the point that the shoulder is continually reimpinged upon worsens the condition. What I mean to say is that this is not a problem that you can use the "shake it off and work it out" philosophy that many of us grew up with.
As far as developing a frozen shoulder, capsulitis of the shoulder will not develop over the course of a week or two of resting the shoulder.
Lastly, most general physicians are well qualified to handle this type of problem. If your primary care physician is comfortable with musculoskeletal problems, an orthopedist will likely only be necessary if you need surgical intervention.
Best regards,
Brady
I do need to add, that ultimately proper stretching will help prevent reinjury. Here we can all agree. Keeping the body's muscles and tendons stretched out is one of the best ways to prevent injury in the first place, but sometimes resting the insulted muscle or tendon does more for healing and repair than anything else. Brady
Doc,
I don't agree that stretching will cause more damage with a "true impingement". Respectfully, this is simply not true in many, many cases. Also, in a true impingement, you are not trying to affect change to the acromion process, but to the muscles in that region. Ice, heat, medications in combination with slow active stretching will help "give slack" to the muscles or any other soft tissue in the area so they won't "rub" onto any irritated areas(i.e. - bursa). You don't need to do many stretches... just a few...back off...come back later...do some more. Again, slooooow.
May I suggest this analogy concerning stretching: Just like a rust bolt, with tight muscles, you go slow...take your time...open the area of concern up s-l-o-w-l-y... gently! If you go to fast, you will just tick the area off (and that is what many folks do... even health professionals).
Active Isolated Stretching (AIS) can help because these stretches are "thinking stretches". Please, don't confuse anything I say with the high school "passive stretches, or ballistic stretching. In AIS, you are targeting specific muscle tissue and then opening the area up in degrees, not leaps and bounds (whereas fast, or ballistic stretching will cause more damage).
Doc, I acknowledge that "adhesive capsulitis / frozen shoulder" won't happen over night, but your recommendation of not moving the area for up to two weeks...well, I just can't sit back on that one. Sorry.
Concerning injuries, recent literature (last 5 years) shows slow, even movement (a.k.a. - "stretching") helps in a quicker recovery period. For example, with an immoblized ankle injury, or tib/fib fracture: wiggle the toes, ankle-toes up (dorsa-flex) only a few degrees and then ankle-toes down (plantar-flex) only a few degrees. What is actually happening? Ans: What you are really doing is akin to CPR... you're simply moving stagnate material (blood, lymph) out of the congested / idle / injured area. Again, the patient/injured individual SHOULD NOT try to go fast, but slowly...and only by small degrees (not leaps and bounds) especially with a acute injury.
Of course, I agree that stretching is an outstanding preventative maintenance method. But, many folks don't do it... get injured... moan and groan... and then only stretch enough to have the pain go away. Yup, once the pain goes away, they stop stretching. Why? Go figure!!
Lastly, in rehabilitation, folks should work on FULL range of motion movements first, and then focus on strengthening. Many folks work on strengthening just as soon as they start "rehabilitation", and that, is where you will make a soft tissue injury worse.
Respectfully,
David
www.thinkmassage.com (http://www.thinkmassage.com)
I had pain just as you descibe.It got to where it would wake me up at night when I bumped it.Mine was a bad case of tendonitis.A cordazon shot and taking it easy with lighter weight bows for a month or so has got me back to 100% again.Go get it checked and fixed up.
Doc and David,
As an Orthopedic Massage Therapist I have to agree with what David is saying. However I also agree with Doc in that imporper stretching techniques will creat more inflimation, or to agressive stretching, as I have often seen done by P.T.'s who feel pressured to create results quickly because of a limited number of visits imposed upon them by insurance companies. Though I have not studied the same specific system of stretching David has, I do believe, and research will support this, that properly applied stretching would be very beneficial. However, I think stretching alone wouldn't be enough.(re-reading I see David touched on this as well, it's late. :p )
First thing to ask here is Why did the impingement occur? I would first make sure the client/patient has sound stuctural balance using soft tissue techniques some of which would employ gentle isolated stretching of very specific muscles or regions of muscle. This should in turn release muscle hypertonicity, trigger points, etc. and then creat more room for the tendon and the sheath it is running through. This then will greatly help with the decrease of inflimation. I would recomend to the client/patient that they do gentle and slow range of motion exercises, but refrain from heavy straining of the shoulder (in this case archery) for at least a couple of weeks. Add to that good old fashioned ice for 20 min 3 times a day. Once the inflimation and pain were gone, and the client had full range of motion, is when I would recomend the beggining of strengthening the weak muscles.
Though I agree that keeping the shoulder imobile for two weeks is probably not going to creat adhesive capsilitis, I also disagree with it. I believe the key is to find a balance between movement of the joint with out causing further irritation/inflimation.
Respectfully,
Derek Wrigley.
Gentlemen,
In an effort to keep this from being a doctor vs. massage therapist disagreement, I will bow out. It is not unusual to have differing opinions stemming from our individual experiences and training. I suspect that David and I will never convince one another that the other is right. I guess Don can decide whether to see his doctor or massage therapist for this problem.
Derek, I do believe that you made many good points. There are certainly adjuncts to healing such as ice, and I even agree that some stretching with the arm lowered to avoid reimpingemet is probably beneficial. But no matter how slow or careful you are about stretching, if you continually slide the inflamed tendons or muscles (there are actually 4 rotator cuff muscles) along the acromium as you would with full range of motion stretches, they are not going to like it, and are more likely to stay inflamed. If you keep pinching them they are likely to stay irritated longer.
Don, best wishes on your recovery.
Brady
It sure sounds like impingement. After laying off shooting to "recover" with no resolution, I saw my doctor and I was referred to physical therapist and was examined this past Monday. I didn't realize until shown during the exam that my left shoulder had significant mobility restriction (and strength)compared to my right (almost 50% in some movements).
I'm scheduled for 4 weeks (2-3X per week) of rehab, which initially will consist of specific stretching to loosen up the shoulder, followed by strengthening for rehab.
I agree with all David said above. If you do see a therapist, take along a bow with you. I did, which both pleased and surprised my therapist. Having it and being able to demonstrate helped her greatly in identifying where my problem was located.
jack
I agree with the above post, Stretch until it hurts. Weight training should never hurt. M.D.'s are trained to treat symptoms with medicine/surgery, and alot of times you never really get cured. JMO
I'm not a doctor but I did sleep in a bed last night:-)
I suggested to my internist that I see an orthopaedic doc, I was ready for the knife. She instead sent me to PT. PT worked-IN MY CASE- Something about strengthening muscles to realign the shoulder to lessen the impingment etc etc etc. I still feel it from time to time but it is very manageable. Probably the best tip I got was to NOT sleep with my arms above my head. Apparently a big source of shoulder pain.
DocBrady,
In response to your last post, this discussion has very little to do with "a doctor versus massage therapist disagreement", but comments/suggestions on threads like these allow everyone to see different view points.
Then, "whoever" can read a thread (like this) and then decide on what course of action he/she will take concerning their minor soft tissue (meaning, "Muscle, tendon, or ligament") injury.
First thought: If "whoever" has an acute injury, my first suggestion is for them to seek out a doctor they can trust (I'll just leave it at that). We are all getting older, and we will all have soft tissue injuries at some point.
Second Thought: If "whoever" has a minor (meaning, non-surgical) injury and wants to "rest it" ... with the hope that the problem will go away (at least for a little bit) ...fine!
If "whoever" is reading this chooses to face the injury concern/problem and address it... with slow, thinking stretches (to stretch the tight tissues, and at the same time work on muscle tone) ... AND then, work on strengthening the weak side... AND then work on muscle balance / stability... fine!
Either way, the choice is always the patient/clients. And yes, common sense states you do rest a bit, move slowly...use Ice, heat, and meds (I said that earlier... see above threads).
Sincerely and with respect,
David
P.S. Tad, you stated, "stretch till it hurts". The answer is simply, "No". There is a difference between PAIN, and a GOOD HURT. In proper stretching, there should never be PAIN. (And yes, there is a fine line there.)
had shoulder surgery in march torn labrum and had to reconnect the labrum to the bone also had to have part of the shoulder bone ground off. Wasn't shooting a bow in 6 weeks. I hated therapy it helped but.......
To anyone facing this problem Good Luck and hope things work out for you.
I had laproscopic surgery done on my right shoulder. I was having alot of pain and the surgery stopped it. Took about a month to heal. No incisions just hole marks about the size of a pencil. I had developed some bone spurs and they cleaned them up and my shoulder is fine now.