Well I am trying my first river cane arrow. Doesn't look too bad but I am sure I will improve. I need to do a little more straightening though. I think I will also drill the nock end and slide a piece of Osage down into that end about an inch and leave it flush with the end of the cane. The point end has Osage down inside 3 inches and it is bottomed out against the first node. I did split the shaft a slight bit, prolly because I ran the drill in too fast would be my guess. I decided just to keep going and finish this arrow anyway. The epoxy oozed out of the split and I then clamped the outside of the shaft. I'm sure it will be strong enough to shoot. I was surprised how straight the drill bit went in. I guess it follows the hollow cavity. Any suggestions are welcome, thanks Roy
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Oh sure!!! do a foreshafted cane arra the first try!!! Make us all go, Gee I wish I was a tallented as Roy. Juss funnin, getting the shaft to spin true may take some work but well worth the effort. Are you planning on making the foreshaft removeable? OOPs just re-read you post, guess not, with the epoxy ooozing out.
Dang show off amatuers..huh Dano!
Drill your hole in stages, don't try and drill it one size all at once, especially if it's going to leave the wall thin. I split one once in awhile, but use tite bond on all sides of my plugs and it ends up being just as strong as pre-cracked, maybe stronger.
Nice job on the foreshaft Roy. Did you turn it on a lathe or hand sand it down?
Be sure you do all your straightening before reducing nodes.
hmmm were you at the expo in wheeling? They did a primitive arrow seminar that was really good and talked a lot about river cane. I'm thinking of trying some myself. Keep posting great photos on your progress.
Can you hang a change bag on the back end of the ROY
I did the foreshaft on a bench sander with a round wheel. Then hand sanded. Ok on drilling the hole in stages. Does the foreshaft need to be inserted into the cane 3 inches? I've been told 1 1/2 or 2 inches is fine. Is epoxy a good glue for the foreshaft or are others better?
Roy, I have 2 cane arrows that Art Butner gave me with foreshafts. All he uses is a taper on the fore shaft and a socket in the cane to match. (3/4" to 1" long). He sets it with super glue and wraps the cane at the joint with thread set in super glue. Being a tapered fit, the fore shaft would have less chance of breaking and with a wrap on the cane would prevent splitting. I have shot these 2 arrows for 2 years now. I did break one of the foreshafts, split from end to end, and had to really work to get it out of the cane to put another in. Pat
Traditionally forshafts were installed with hide glue, fish glue, pine pitch, birch tar or shellac and then linen thread or sinew wrapped. Part of the purpose of a foreshaft is to be able to reuse the arrow if the arrow hits something hard and the foreshaft breaks. If ya can't get it out, ya can't reuse the arrow. However we do this more for grins than for any real purpose.
I would think 1 1/2" would be plenty deep enough Roy.
Your arrow is looking good so far!I have split a few shafts while drilling for the fore shaft myself. I remedied this problem by serving the end of my shaft before I try to drill. This has eliminated the spliting of my shafts altogether.I also use only one drill bit size now! ...... The reason I use a foreshaft is most knapped heads the size I prefer are from 80 to 100 grains. I need more weight up front for good arrow flight. A fore shaft 3 to 4 inches gives me the added weight I need. They also look great as someone else has mentioned.
hell i admire you just for trying, i always tell myself im gunna learn to build my own arrows n then never do lol. great work keep it up!
Your arrow is looking good so far, can't wait to see the completed version.
Well I played around some more tonight in the bow shop. Came up with this head on a cane arrow. I did not like how I had to deal with the flat spot on the cane while wrapping the foreshaft/arrow junction. I guess it will be ok but in the future I think I will make my splice where the cane is rounder.. Any comments there? Mickey? Anyone? I'm a rookie here learning as I go.. When the arrow is placed on the bow, should it be aligned so those flat sides on the cane are either facing up or down? I don't think I'd want them facing the side of the shelf on the bow..
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Roy looks great! Nice splice job. Those little indents don't mean squat and they vary from one side to the other at every other node so at some point they are going to be against the riser anyway. You have to learn to ignore them. Look through them when staightening. Looks like you got that one plenty straight. Can't wait to read your reaction after you shoot it.
Thanks Mickey, but you never really answered my question on arrow alignment. I noticed that the sides 90 degrees opposite from those flat spots are nice and straight so I'm gonna lay that side up againist the riser.. That ok with you? LOL
Tomorrow night she gets turkey feathers tied on and a self nock cut in and shot.. YEE-HAW.. :)
Well OK go ahead and get picky about how ya shoot it if ya want. :biglaugh:
Looks to be straight as an arrow.
First thing Roy, your spine requirement should dictate your node placement. Course you can move your node placement if you don't like it but still keep your spine requirement (by length, point weight, etc). Glad I could clear that up for you :D !
You're right of course, you want those furrows or flat sections at the node's area facing up and down for long/self bows. For true center-shot bows this could be reversed though. But to index your shaft you should have the first node's flat section that's in front of your fletching facing up (12 o'clock). But as always, shoot your arrow from both sides to determine best flight. But about 8 out of 10 times the prescribed method above for indexing boo/cane works fine.-ART B
Art you must have access to a lot of cane if you can be that picky with node placement. I usually get a dozen pieces of cane a year and trying to manuever node placement around tip and nock is hard enough LOL
I've shot cane with nodes just below the nock,actually in the nock, in the feathers, 1 1/2" below the tip, furrows in, furrows out, furrows up, furrows down...and anywhere from 3 to 6 nodes in a 30" span.Of course I shoot off a floppy rest so there is "give" in the shot. That and paradox means there's not much worry about node location to me.
I've only had one piece of cane that had to be shot cock feather in so I stripped the low feathers and made it a 4 fletch flu flu. That was a piece of Martha Stewart cane from the garden store.
BTW a few years ago there was an article in one of the magazines where someone found a box of Japanese cane arrow shafts and they all were perfectly straight, had 4 nodes and all the nodes lined up exactly the same on every shaft (if memory serves me). Now that is awesome!
Dang Roy.....great job man!
Na, don't have access to a lot of cane Mickey, just use what folks send me. But for me personally, it's not so about making arrows but rather getting them to fly properly. I don't make up a dozen arrows just to get a few good flyers. I make up a dozen arrows to get a dozen good flyers. As you certainly know, to much work goes into these types of arrows and not get' em right.
And a consistent method really helps, that's what I was describing. Take those Japanese cane you mentioned, very consistent throughout. Not saying that we have to be precise in node alignment for good flight but cane does have some predictable manners. Side to side deflection being the most critical IMO. Often times the clear sides are the stronger sides while the furrow sides the weaker. More oval the shaft the more pronounced these differences are.-ART B
Thanks Art and Mickey, I think:) :pray:
Well I just can't stop playing with cane arrows. I got 1 done up tonight. I rushed it a bit and only put on 1 coat of stain and 1 coat of tongue oil. It shoots very nice. It did spine out at 55 to 60 pounds. High for my 46 pound bow, but the bow is almost center shot. I am learning quite a bit about these arrow shafts in only a few nights of making them. But I am having a blast. I thank you guys for the advice. Here are some more pictures.
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By George, I think you've got it! Very nice cane arrow, Roy. With the natural taper of cane(and hardwood shoots) the spine is less critical. You can subtract 10# of spine weight just for that natural taper, I believe. Pat
Looks like it's a shooter Roy. How about a close up of the nock. Looks unusual for some reason, want to see how you shaped it.
I cheated Mickey, it's a plastic nock:) Was in a hurry to shoot it. Next one will be a self nock.
PLASTIC?????? :scared:
LOL you spent how many hours straightening the cane, making and fitting the foreshaft, thread wrapping the turkey feathers and then couldn't wait long enough to shape a self nock?
Egads man, have you no self respect? LOL
guys where do you get canr i made the mistake of ordering tonkin cane on the net and man that stuff is all over the place
nice job, Roy. thanks for the pics.
crash it's all over Texas..one of the great cane states(that plus osage and flint)..you are in the middle of Primitive heaven
well may be i need to go for a long walk all i find is what we call switch cane breaks real easy and doesnt really have a node
Actually switch cane and river cane are very similar but river cane grows taller and larger in diameter. What you are finding may be called switch cane locally but chances are it is something else.
http://www.geocities.com/archeryrob/river_cane.htm
Mickey, don't make me take a road trip to Cincinnati Ohio tonight and thump the chit outta ya:) LOL, but I do agree with you, and I DID say the next cane arrow will have a selfnock on her.. I promise. And I want to make some deer antler style field points too. Dat Trad enuff fur ya? :)
I shot this broadhead tipped cane arrow tonight about 20 times in the basement at 12 yards at a 3 inch bull. 14 out of 20 shots were in the bull and the other 6 were maybe 1/2 inch outside the bull. I can not get over how well this arrow flies! There is no fishtail, no porpoise, and it hits hard. The sinew did start to fray a bit after shooting it and pulling it out 20 times. So I smeared duco glue around the sinew, I think that will help. Now don't go messen with me about using man made glue on the sinew there boy:) LOL
Roy, I use super glue or Duco on my sinew wrapping and to seal over hafted points. Pat
well i think i might try out one of those tonkin cane pieces now looking at cane arrows online has inspired me
LOL ok Roy no more hassle from me
BTW Bone field points would be really cool. I 'll have to try that someday. If ya use a tip it won't be so porous when you taper the point don'tcha think?
12 yards is about 4-5 yards farther than I usually shoot my deer ;)
Yup I already learnt that about using the tip of the antler to get away from the soft inner core of the antler on down the rack. Now all I gotta do is perfect my procedure for maken the darn things:) But I will Mickey.
And BTW, I glued up your arrows tonight. 1/4 inch Hickory and 1/4 inch Poplar. Ran them thru the plainer to 1/4 inch, hit them with the toothing plain and glued them up with Smooth On. Got them two, 3 inch wide boards clamped down on the workbench as we speak. Will get them cut out and run through the arrow maker in a day or 2. I will need your mailing addy. Send it to me in a PM or e-mail dude..
Yep,you're going to like those selfnocked cane arrows so well Roy that you'll want to make up a nice target set. Probably going to want to make a few more up to show your buds at the 3-d range just have well they perform. Lord, just watch how them good ol' boy's shootin' improves when staring at self nock arrows in a target :eek: . Might as well right "pick-a-spot" on 'em. Now don't come complaining to us when you don't have an more cane arrows to shoot, you know your way to Cinninati LOL :D !
But seriously though, I don't like anything but a selfnock on a hunting arrows. Had many a plastic nock fail but never a selfnock. So use your head when it comes to target arrows Roy! :knothead: -ART B
LOL Art, but I understand..
The hardest part about cane arrows is keeping them once people see them. I've probably given away a half dozen one at a time, for every one I've managed to hold onto. Made 13 last fall (all with flint heads), and I'm down to 4 or 5 left and haven't fired a shot yet LOL
You'll find out Roy. hee hee
I can certainly sympathize with you Mickey. That's the biggest compliant I have about cane/boo arrows. Had to make myself a new set this past winter. But please don't tell anyone! :scared: -ART B
I know all about giving away arrows. In the past 4 years I prolly have given away or donated over $200.00 in wooden arrows. Past 2 months between making bows, I made a dozen primitive arrows with turkey feathers tied on and self nocks which I donated for a disabled hunter auction. Worthy cause, but I don't think I will be giving away any cane arrows for a while. But I am sure the time will come. I just love making arrows and this cane arrow gig has me fired up.
I also give away a bunch of cane arrows as well as cane shafts. It is hard to keep all my promises caught up! I owe a certain fellow some shafts as I write. I won't tell you his name but his initials are Mickey Lotz! :) I haven't forgotten you pal! The Shad and Striped Bass run got in the way. :)
Mickey I take it I should feel gifted I have 2 cane arrows on the living room wall. Made by the one and only DANO.
O2
DAng right you should feel gifted Ron, I don't even think I have one of those...insert some kind of jealous icon thingy here!
WOW..upstanded by a bunch of smelly fish :banghead: it's good to know your station in life :biglaugh:
Worth waitning for Matt! Thanks
BTW, there's some river cane in Terry's first photo on his happy trails thread, just FYI.
Matt I love you man:)
Now can I get on your cane give away list? LOL