Trad Gang

Hi, I am a young writer who is writing his first article on two great things, knifemaking and trad archery!, I have to have input from trad archers on what do you feel is a traditional knife?, it does not have to be a flint blade or handforged, just what you feel defines a trad knife, what do you use in the feild?, dont know if the article will ever be accepted, but its my first one!, any input would be great!

carbon steel blade and a wood or horn handle.

A trad knife? Never thought about it. Having started shooting bows before compounds came along, I never used to think about "trad" bows, either. I own a lot of knives, some old, some stone, some big and some small. I use what has shown itself to work well in the field for me, and don't worry about a label for it.

I use the clip point of a pocket knife to start cutting on downed deer, the spey blade slits the belly without opening innards. I may use the bigger Buck Vanguard to reach up and cut windpipe and esophagus, or not.

Its name is Everready. It lost a scale to the dryer. My buddy just put new lignum vitae scales on it, but I haven't photographed them yet.  :bigsmyl:  

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Killdeer/Everready.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Killdeer/Everready2.jpg)

Killdeer

Killy, you need more beads.  If you don't keep them in 5 gallon buckets, you just don't have enough.    :wavey:

I live in a verry small shoebox.  :o

Do a search on Ron LeClair and you'll see enough knives for 10 articles.

It's big enough for a Bass Import!!  :bigsmyl:

Yeah but she had to settle for the bottle instead of the keg Kenny. hehe

If I had a keg, I would have too much company.
Ron does have a nice collection of knives, knives that are suitable for reenactors to carry at rendezvous and historical displays. I downloaded a bunch of pics that he posted, but I forget the name of the thread that they were in. If you poke his profile, it will tell you recent threads that he has posted in, or maybe someone here will chime in on the thread. Meantime you can check out the "old Duffer" thread, it has pics of Ron out hunting, often with a big ol' knife on him.

Killdeer~there are more beads in the desk drawers!   :bigsmyl:

hey killdeer you got that roo yet if not its on its way.

You sent it what, the fifteenth?
Chill, dude. That's a lot of water.

Ian, you find that Old Duffer thread? It is hanging out just a few threads below this one right now. Man it's late. Could y'all quiet down a little? I need some sleep.

Killdeer  :cool:

If someone were to ask me to describe a traditional knife I would have to say a belt knife in a leather sheath. Probably a 4 1/2"- 5" blade and a 4 1/2" to 5" wood and leather handle with a brass butt plate and finger guard. Look at any old pictures of deer hunters standing around in camp and you'll see them hanging on their hips.Check out the guy on the left in this pic

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/theferret111/conservationistbowhunting.jpg)

Photo originally posted by Charlie Lamb

I would say that the "Traditional Archery Knife" would have to be the old style knife that Fred Bear carried. a Puma(???) sheath knife,in a leather sheath that also carried a file,and I believe a hone stone.

Maybe someone has a good picture of one.....

Talk to Doug Campbell, Tippet, Jeremy, and Stikshooter, more than a few trad-hunters carry blades from these gentlemen.

any green river blade

also Killy how's the bead work after downing the bass? Are the lines just a little crooked  :bigsmyl:

Unless she's doing gourd stitch - which is tough on a non-cylindrical shape- I bet it looks just fine- lazy stitch, applique- that can be done on autopilot if experienced, as I am sure Killie is.

I just finished some 4 inch medallions for the quiver/bowcase of a sheephorn bow I sold to Jake LaTandresse of Missouri..and they were done under the influence of many a Negra Modelo- not quite as good as Bass but just as influential on the brain.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ian johnson:
Hi, I am a young writer who is writing his first article on two great things, knifemaking and trad archery!, I have to have input from trad archers on what do you feel is a traditional knife?, it does not have to be a flint blade or handforged, just what you feel defines a trad knife, what do you use in the feild?, dont know if the article will ever be accepted, but its my first one!, any input would be great!

The first part is to define what is "Traditional" and I think most of use here think it is a "State of Mind", or an "attitude".  Equipment would be hard to define, but for a bow, it is "generally" beleived to be one with one string and no letoff.

I have never seen the post where it was asked of knives.

As it happens, I am having a knife made that will be a "carry knife" with a common sheath, and I am also having a "fancy" Indian beaded sheath made.

This will have a damascus blade and an antler handle.  It is mostly finished.
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History of Damascus:

Traditional Damascus steel, also known as Pattern Weld, Damascene, or Damast, was first produced over two thousand years ago. It has lived in legend and is referred to as the steel of the ancients.

Damascus swords and knives dominated the weapon industry from the Iron Age to the Viking age. Alexander the Great was said to have a Damascus sword, and even Aristotle commented on the high quality of the Damascus steel blade. Its origins can be traced back as far as 500 A.D. In India, it was called Telangana, Wootz or Ukku steel. It then found its way to Damascus, Syria, which was the center of trade in that region for war equipment such as knives, swords and armor.

However, Damascus steel had been a lost technology from the early 1700's up until World War II. It again has gained popularity since the mid 1970's.
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It is not very likely that the American Indians had much damascus, but I like the look of it and with the antler handle, it is turning out VERY cool to me.

Here is a work in process picture:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/Marblesonac/Robsknife008.jpg)

Voodoofire1 assembled the blade /handle as well as doing the filework on the blade.  Shell will add a string of beads over the sinew.

Ian,

If you can get a copy of E.H. Kreps book "Camp and Trail Methods" written back in the early 1900s there is a excellent chapter on hunting knives and axes. The book has been republished by A.R. Harding (Fur,Fish and Game Magazine) and can be ordered for about 5 or 6 bucks I think. The books written by Nesmuk (famous Adirondak Woodsman) will also offer information on what some of the old timers considered a good knife. I have dozens of knives ranging from stone to damascus to carbon to high tech modern steel. I prefer to carry a small custom made(4 1/2 inch blade)carbon steel knife, with no guard, and a deep leather sheath on my belt. It is easy to sharpen in the field and holds a decent edge. I also like to carry a very small "Belt Axe" on a strap over my shoulder that rides high by my ribs.   A Marbles "Expert Hunter" Knife would in my opnion fit the definition of a Traditional knife.
Hope this helps. Good Luck with your writing.

A knife with no cams or letoff?

Is there a reason why you're trying to tack the word 'traditional' onto a knife?   Knowing that might give you better insight into the sort of story you want to write and help you develop the theme better.

Jake
(who can't give an answer to such a subjective question)

Jake I can see where he's coming from (maybe LOL). A carbon blade, a plastic handle, springs and releases can't see where any of these could be considered traditional

Leather, wood, steel, brass, non folder = traditional (at least in a hunting knife)

Can you see Jerimiah Johnson reaching down into his buckskins for his spring loaded plastic handled carbon bladed folding knife when he needs to skin Griz real quick like? I can't ha ha

Actually, if such a knife had been available at the time I could easily see it.

I also think he'd have used a scoped, repeating, rifle.

People were a lot less fussy about fashion and more about function in those days.  (at least when it came to tools.  Every generation has its fashion issues  :D  )   They weren't far enough away from survival to be nostalgic about equipment.

It doesn't fit the romantic image, but little of the real story does.

Jake
(who prefers the romance to the reality most of the time too, but is just waiting for an article about 'traditional' portable generators)

How about an article on classic hunting knife designs?

Now THAT is an article I'd pay to read.

Jake
(who really was trying to be helpful)

jake H- I am not trying to show a certain style of knife as "traditional", but show what other people think of when they think of a traditional knife, I am planning on taking a journalism class my jounior year, so I have no real experience in writing, except sophmore level english, thank you for your comment

Mmmmmmmm Bass.....

Ian, check with the writers of wilderness Way and maybe they can give you some insight on whats considered a traditional  knife. Jon

a traditional knife would be something like the 'Old Hickory' kitchen knives.
Wood handle,brass pins,high carbon steel...
I could see a good ole boy, sorry Killy; grabbin one up one of those that was missin the handle and wrapping the shank with leather laces and makin' do... 'redneck recyclin' style

I can see "Jerimiah Johnson" or someone from that era using a folding knife for some chores. Folding knives were common in the 1700s and 1800s. Plastic handles of course not.
Primitive? Traditional? Modern? Everyone has their own idea of what each is. Figure out what time period you consider "Traditional" and do some research as to what type of knives were used and favored by Woodsman of that Time period.

Hi Ian,

I see where you're going now. Thanks for the clarification.

I think my answer, no joking, would be 'a brown one'.   The number of types/styles/variations of knives that have been used over the centuries are legion, but the one thing that immediately makes a knife stand out as 'newfangled' is that it's in some horrible, bright, crayola colour.   (the most horrid to my tastes being the rainbow coloured laminates- but some folks like em so more power to them).

'Traditional' (if I dare use the word after giving it such a hard time in my last post) knives tend to be brown.  Wood, horn, antler, brown leather... brown.  Occassionally black (very dark woods or black leather for dress knives and riverboat gamblers  ;)  )  but usually brown.

Beyond that, I doubt you'd find a knife made today for which you couldn't find a 150yr old cousin (not a perfect copy, but you'd see the kinship between them).  

Knives, like bows, are one of man's oldest tools and as such 'there's nothing new under the sun' (but I draw the line at dayglow lime plastic scales     )

Jake
(who realizes thats a weird and vague answer, but it's the best one he's got)