We are lucky to have such excellent people to deal with as we have at Kustom King and 3 Rivers. We should respect them for sticking to selling traditional equipment even though the megabucks are in high tech. archery.
It bothers me to see negative posting here and at the other site concerning either of these two fine companies. I know that either one of these companies will go out of their way to resolve a problem.
The next time you talk to either one of them, tell them that you appreciate what they are doing. Can you imagine what it would be like if we didn't have them to support our passion?
My suggestion is this, if you have a complaint tell them about it. If you have praise for them, tell them that also. Then come on here and tell us.
Yep. It bothers me too.
I have done business with both over the years and never had a problem with either. Good outfits that I trust completely.
Posting problems on the internet should be the absolute last resort, if done at all, and not the first.
Agreed!!
Ditto!!!!!!
I have always received great service from 3 Rivers Archery. No need to look anywhere else.
Good point!
Good point, 2fletch. I heartedly agree.
I am not one to openly complain about what I feel is wrong. I try to contact the people I was dealing with. Usually the issue is resolved. I even have been told to keep what was sent in error. I ahve dealt with 3 rivers for a long time now. They have always taken care of me.
I have bought shafts from KK and have always been pleased.
Yes, I shop around for my "fixings" for my arrows.
Altough I love a good argument, one of things I like about this site is that trashing of great companies like KK and 3Rivers isn't tolerated here. I buy from both..placed an order with each yesterday. Tim Cosgrove is a good friend, a good man. I don't know Dale Karch as well, but working with him in the Compton organization I can say I respect him a great deal.
I have done business with both, and have had good experiences overall.
I did experience a "bad day at the warehouse" transaction, and it was fixed a few weeks later, but that was some years back, and it does not deter me from making small orders right now.
However, there is one thing that has been nagging me for two weeks, and that is the fact that I was debating on "treating" myself to a present from 3R, and have it expedited, until I looked at the shipping/pricing chart.
Now I wholly understand that a customer is expected to pay a proportional amount of money for expedited shipping, but the posted prices on the chart for items over $500, and 3-day shipping are, to me, a deterrent, at $60.
I did not place the order; I bought a used bow instead from a private party, and noticed that it was sent via USPS Priority Mail, insured, and had a marked price of just a hair over $11. It also arrived in two days...
I would not expect 3R to ship for $11, but I think it could be much less than $60.
The regular 7-10 day fee of $24 (over $500 in merchandise) is not totally unreasonable, but in my opinion, they could look at a modification to the expedited rates, or alter the system to reflect the zip code to which it is being shipped.
Now on the up side to this--the tiny order I did make after that showed up in around 3 days, and they are actively double-checking every shipment at the warehouse with personal signatures. I like that very much!
The 2nd up-side is that both--especially 3R--have DRASTICALLY increased their selection!!
Just my two cents, and I will continue to do business with both, and not just out of "necessity" due to our specialized hobby!
Take Care,
Marc
Ive had good dealings with KK and my feeling on shipping is if i had to supply boxes/shipping materialand pack it that takes time and in buisness time is money, just my two cents
Kustom King and 3 Rivers are excelent in Service when I orderd from Germany.
I don't agree with some who say not to complain about service on the net. If a company doesn't give you a 100% effort other customers should know about it so they can be aware of it. I am not saying that you should resort to just having an all out bash on a company for having a small glitch in there system a time or two, !@#$ happens we all know that. The one thing that bugs me also with 3rivers is the amount of burden they put on you for shipping. With somethings it is worth it to me to head to Gander Mountain and see if they have it and it is like 30 miles away. I just do not think that they can justify some of there shipping. I can bet some will try to rip me for saying it but I am sure that there are more than an equal amount that will and do agree with me just afraid of the backlash from saying anything.
Chris Kiefner
Not trying to cause a big fuss, Chris K but...
If you make a 60 mile trip to 'see' if Gander has something- and drive a pickup- you are spending ten bucks for gas. Wouldn't it be better to spend the bucks for the shipping and be sure its coming?
driving sixty miles to get something is spending money, just like paying shipping costs is spending money.
Remember, guys, not every business has access to every freight method- in other words, to get a reasonable rate for MOST of their shipping, which is standard rate stuff- 3 Rivers probably has to agree to use UPS as their standard method of shipping for all services like expedited stuff..they get a big break on the ground, and they agree to let UPS make a little bit of that up on the expedited stuff. They have to buy and keep pallets of boxes, padded envelopes, tape, labels, computers to print the labels, etc.
They may not have a good post office- they may not have Fed Ex in their town, or can't get a drop trailer- there's lots of reasons why things are the way they are and they aren't readily apparent to us as customers- but are a daily source of aggravation to business OWNERS who are, honestly, trying every day to find a way to serve US better.
I do not think any business in any industry LOOKS for ways to serve us more poorly- that's why feedback to the business is important- and bellyaching here gets nearly NOTHING accomplished.
I work in the same town, so I am going there anyway. If I go on the way back or on the way it is about 200 yards out of the way, I am not wasting money on gas just to get the product. I have also found other places to buy things. For instances, I live in Indiana(which is where 3rivers is). I have ordered numerous items in Montana which in return has saved me a bundle. I have not had to pay for the extra shipping cost as I would with the other suggested estabishments. Could be because I actually pay for what the shipping cost not the inflated price of shipping. They are not just trying to serve us better they are trying to make an extra dollar on you coming and going.
Chris Kiefner
I just bought 2 Burlap targets from 3 Rivers yesterday, and paid $7 shipping. Not expedited shipping, just plain old ground. $7 is a bargain. For $7,somebody goes to the shelf, picks my items, pays for a box, packs them up securely, processes my credit card, and pays UPS or USPS to bring it to my front door. I never leave my house, my Dodge truck doesn't drink $12 worth of gas, etc., etc.
Mail order is a CONVENIENCE. Shipping SHOULD be slightly padded to cover the cost of the convenience.
I'm making up numbers now, but I bet the ratios are correct...if someone walks in to 3Rivers and buys off the shelf, they might make 10% gross profit. If they touch it handle it, ship it...even with charging you a padded shipping charge, I would bet that GP drops closer to 5%.
NOBODY is getting rich selling traditional archery gear.
rich, I don't know but living pretty comfortable!
Chris Kiefner
Chris K - seriously? That bothers you? I HOPE everyone at 3Rivers, Kustom King, and every traditional bowyer is able to be "living pretty comfotably".
I sell things for a living. One of the most frustrating attitudes a buyer can have is that of trying to chisel out the last profitable penny. Accept the fact that the owners of 3Rivers are doing this TO MAKE A LIVING. Should they live "uncomfortably"? Gosh I hope you don't believe that.
If you do, I urge you to go start a traditional archery business, or a gas station, and sell things for little or no profit. I will gladly buy from you...for the short time your business exists.
Well I'm firmly in chis K's corner on this. S&H costs have increased dramticly in recent years. Enought so that it is't worth it to mail order small orders, tying shipping costs to dollar amt. irks me too as small item with high dollar value costs you the same to ship as many heavy bulky less expencive items. Yes S&H I'm sure is a major cost for those who are primarily mail order but it pales in comparison to the costs involved in running a local store. Who employe local people and pay local taxs that benefit your area. Bottom line it's sone thing I look at now where before I'd didn't give it much thought.
Whether it wieghs 1 pound or 10 pounds, it still has to go on the UPS truck.
Yes but weight and size are the biggest factors.
Not every thing needs to be shipped UPS many small items are shipped in bubble wraped envolopes reg. mail.
OK. Your right. 3Rivers should declare themselves a charity and give the stuff away, frieght included. Whatever. Some conversations are too stupid to have.
No one said that. Lets keep it real.
As long as shipping charges are based on the price of the item instead of actual shipping weight + insurance value + auxillary shipping costs, shipping charges are going to be way out of whack on some items.
My shop has a program that takes into account actual shipping charges for any given weight to any given zip code at the requested service level, insurance costs, then adds a nominal percentage to cover other shipping costs. We do not try to make money on shipping, but we do try not to lose money.
Thats all I'm talking about Phil !
In 1993 Gabby at Kustom King allowed me to "register" as the groom before my wedding. I figured if the bride could do it.... Got darn near everything I registered for too(Even cut my kids umbilical cord with a Zwickey from KK.) My non trad friends were impressed an outfit would do that,let alone a mail order one. Top flight outfit all the way. Time to place an order.
"(Even cut my kids umbilical cord with a Zwickey from KK.)"
You Sir, win the award for being the most traditional guy I know! ;0) That is amazing. I would bet you are the only guy on the planet who can claim that!. Dangit. Good idea. :notworthy:
Absolute true story. Was going to do it with my Randall Knife but the sterilizing process would ruin the handle. So I suggested a Zwickey, the midwife bought into the idea and she was amazed at how quickly it cut thru. No it wasn't shot from a bow. I'm pretty sure I told Gabby at KK the story but if not maybe she'll read the thread.
I just decided to check both for myself. I usually look for the best deal.
I picked one item I wanted: Feather Fletching Tape.
3Rivers was $7.50 and $4.95 s/h = $12.95.
KK was $6.65 price reduced for online sale was $6.65 and $5.95 s/h = $12.27.
I can't get in my vehicle and go to the next town and back for that. (but there's no archery shop, ha, ha)
Plus I would have to drive about 80 miles, one way to get fletching tape.
I think I'll deal with both of these folks, online, just as I have in the past; with no problems ever from either of them.
They both send me catalogs and I try to order something from both of them every year.
Plus, they SPONSOR THIS SITE where I enjoy visiting, every day!
I think it's pretty convenient that one can sit in front of their expensive computer; click a few clicks and order anything they want. Then, however, like too many spoiled customers, they expect everthing else to be given to them, as if they deserve some kind of special treatment. It never ceases to amaze me at the selfishness of people. They couldn't really care less about those who wait on them. If the shipping is too much, then don't order from them.
As I read 2fletchs initial post, I have to wonder how we got to where we are with this thread.
I am not as blessed as many of the Gang, the closest Trad Archery supply for me is at least 5-8 hour drive.
I thank the owners of both these establishments for providing a SERVICE for folks such as I.
And folks that's what it is a SERVICE and as with any SERVICE. Your free to be served some place else. I fought so that you may have that RIGHT!
There are some pretty interesting comments and assumptions here regarding shipping.
Using a dollar chart for shipping is generally implemented because of convenience to the customer. Many people will use a credit card for purchases, but not all do. If you want to take the time to send of an order, have the weights and boxes packed and then have the company call you back with the shipping charges, then have you send off your money order. That just isn't good business. Tim at Kustom King said they tried to have the customers figure shipping in the past based on weight, postal code and all and invariably they had countless errors on the customers part and follow up correspondence to customers wondering why they were charged differently. The standard charts take all of that out of the equation and allow the business to provide fast service without the correction follow-up hassle at the fairest way they can while keeping it simple.
It's interesting to see all the "screw the customer" comments when this form of shipping charge was put into place to keep other costs down (paying for staff to enter every order and calculate shipping or to correct shipping calculation errors by the customer) and for the convenience of the customer.
I have no problems with 3 Rivers or Kustom Kings pricing or method of doing business. If I did, I'd find a different place of doing business.
You are right Ray, shipping a variey of products of differrent sizes and weights would be maddening with out preset rates.
I truly appreciate 3Rivers (have never done business with KK), BUT...
Both these business's like any, occasionally step on it. I've had it happen with 3R. I've read of some good ones with KK as well.
To ignore it is unrealistic.
I personally believe a fair critique when this happens is not only reasonable, but gives any business an alert that they may need to address a problem.
IMO, to refuse to acknowledge they make mistakes and place them above critisicm is unfair to customers first and the business second itself...
I agree 100% with 2fletch!! Also I have to give a thumbs up to 3rivers. I live in south america and I pay 2 dollars more then actual shipping. To me the is some excellent service. I have to go today to the post office and pick up my last order. The only thing I wish they would do is not include the invoice on the box. Here if the box comes as purchased goods, I have to pay 20% import tax. But I fully understand that they must do this and I accept it in return for the great service they provide me.
James
I have never had anything negative to say about either of the two. I am pretty new to traditional so I like being able to call and talk to a traditional bowhunter. Alot of times I need some advice in selecting a product. This has never been a problem at 3R or KK as well as one of the smaller outfits that is a sponsor here. I try to spread the business around and there are certain things that one has and the other doesn't so that is how I decide.
Roger has a very good point, Chris. We can hardly fault a business for trying to make a profit-----they aren't in it for the fun of it all(well almost), and they have the unenviable job of having to deal with customers each day(to me thats worth a little extra right there).
This is how these people pay their bills----not just their own bills, but their business' bills as well! I'll be danged, but the money just adds up right there.
I have a lot of respect(and envy)for those that choose to go their own way to brave the world of small business.
Jeff
I'm so thankful for 3 River's & Kustom King! I live in a little town on the prairie & would have to drive hours to find a trad shop.
I just placed a $75 order & shipping was $8.95 (3River's this time). What a bargain!!! Great service, etc. from both!
Now I cant say I have Ever Ordered Anything from the Shops in Question here, What I have to say has NOTHING to Do with Their Service or Lack There Of. This is just going by what I Do Know and I will try to keep it in that PERSPECTIVE
I Personally frequent "LOST NATION" for the Majority of my Arrow Making Needs, etc. Larry and Janice Murray have been a GREAT HELP to ME , Personally, and I would just Rather Do Business with Them. I have gotten a Lot of things shipped to me Priority Mail, and I know they have "OverHead" as Everyone who Runs a Business has to deal With, Unfortunately.
I was considering a Purchase or 2 on some Items on "Kustom-Kings On-Line Catalog". From what I have read, it makes me a little Apprehensive. Cant really say anything good or bad at this time.
To be Honest, 3-Rivers is the "Hard-Sell-Type" of Shop, in MY Opinion, and thats like a "Used-Car-Salesman" in My Eyes. I dont want the Push-Hard-Sell Type. It just turned ME Off from the Start.
I know for a while there was some "Conflab" about "Martin Girls" using "Sex" to draw attention to their Product, I think it was the Last TBH or Possibly PA, I saw an ad, with a Girl for the Tomahawk Bow, which is 3Rivers " BOW of Choice for the Masses",with US being the Masses. I wasnt Impressed. AGAIN MY OPINION , ok?
I would much rather use the SMALLER Shops for My Equipment for these reasons, amongst others, and from the "Thousand Dollar in My Mouth" Comment on the "Masters of the Barebow" DVD, to the Dale "BIG SAFARI HUNT" Again,NOT the Least Impressed.
Again, MY OPINION and CHOICE of Where I Buy MY Archery Supplies, and Thats That.
If I have Offended,Embarassed, or Just Plain Made Mad, I Sincerely Apologize.....
Archery is for ALL, and FUN if Ya Do it Right!! :campfire: :archer:
I gotta agree with 2Fletch. Been dealing with KK and 12 years or so and 3 rivers alil less.
"Imagine a business where the major majority of sales is mail order and many times you only sell 12 nocks or 12 140gr screw-in tips in a order? Takes a very caring company to be that committed to it's customers."
Sure I get back ordered items once in awhile. But for a sport which is not in as much demand as others, how much stock can a company hold. They run out of tapes, gloves, even arrows have been a big deal this past winter with one of the major manufactureres moving their location.
Depending on the season especially during Christams when we buy/get gifts for the holidays.
What good would a company in traditional archery be if they did not participate in our sports to know what is good or not. Their hunting just like us. Some other companies shut down for a week or much more.
As for delivereies, they each know what works well to allow them to be somewhat be competive and found their best sources to ship. You cannot spend hours a day making out your UPS, FEDEX OR USPS etc. shipping tickets to shipment 5 different ways .
No easy answer for shipping unless prices for all items go thru the roof to help pay for extra people who will not be productive all day. The guys who pack and ship also building arrows, stock and everything else.
Being a "Traditional" archer and having two companies such as KK & 3RA is much more a blessing and should be weighed like that.
Let me repeat something I said earlier as I hope others may absorb and truly understand.
"Imagine a business where the major majority of sales is mail order and many times you only sell 12 nocks or 12 140gr screw-in tips in a order? Takes a very caring company to be that committed to it's customers."
If I'm not mistaken, that mail order company by McMahon didn't charge frieght (or had some kind of great frieght deal). They weren't around very long...no disrespect intended.
Shakes - "Thousand Dollars in my mouth"? That was Dale goofing around about his gold teeth in an outtake. Sheesh.