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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Grizz 53 on March 06, 2007, 11:50:00 AM

Title: does speed matter
Post by: Grizz 53 on March 06, 2007, 11:50:00 AM
Hey Guys, I'm a little confused about speed. Every trad shooter I talk to says their not worried about speed, but when someone gets a new bow the first thing I hear is {how quick is it}. Whats the difference between quick and fast? I shoot 48# @ 29inches. I shoot a carbon arrow thats 401 grains. My brother-in-law shoot 53lbs with a heavy arrow. When we pull our arrows out of a 3-D target mine is always the hardest to pull out because it's deeper in the target. Is't penatration what it's all about anyway. Would like some input on this subject.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Kingstaken on March 06, 2007, 12:10:00 PM
Tarditional guys/gals are still guys who love  speed (girls see how I removed you from this crazy passion typically found in males), the more speed the better even for rubber bands, they want the fastest hoping it will help them with judging distance hoping that speed along with their broadhead will impact the anilmal so fast that it will give them that pass thru they desire.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: poekoelan on March 06, 2007, 12:19:00 PM
Even primitive self bow guys chase speed.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Grizz 53 on March 06, 2007, 12:22:00 PM
I always liked passthrough shots, especially from a tree stand. Seems like I always got a better blood trail.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Mark Baker on March 06, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
Speed is a good indication of the efficiency of the bow your shooting, but your right in that penetration is the name of the game, and there are many more factors to consider.   And like most trad guys I guess, I look at speed after I first judge the shootability of the bow.  

At most hunting distances, really 20 yards and less, there is'nt more than an eyeblink of difference between the fastest and slowest of bows...not a trajectory factor really either.  There are a lot more things you can consider to max your penetration out, besides speed.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: NDTerminator on March 06, 2007, 12:50:00 PM
Everybody likes speed, within reason.  I sure do, but noise level of a bow is even more important, IMO...
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: pjsnell on March 06, 2007, 01:12:00 PM
Take two bows of the same draw weight, say 45@28.  Let's say one bow shoots a 450 grain arrow at 150 fps, and the other 180 fps. The 180fps bow transfers more energy into the arrow, and that arrow will have a flatter trajectory.  The faster bow is a more efficient tool.

But that is one factor.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: pjsnell on March 06, 2007, 01:13:00 PM
I, on the other hand, am not so fast...
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Grizz 53 on March 06, 2007, 01:18:00 PM
Thats what I love about this longbow I'm shooting. At 177 ft per second it's whisper quiet
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: James Wrenn on March 06, 2007, 01:20:00 PM
It is pretty easy to slow down a fast bow if it has too much speed for you.It is a lot harder to get more speed out of a slow bow if you feel you need more.I will go with the one that is easiest to work with.  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: madness522 on March 06, 2007, 01:44:00 PM
Speed is good but quiet it better.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Chris Wilson on March 06, 2007, 01:59:00 PM
QuoteIt is pretty easy to slow down a fast bow if it has too much speed for you.It is a lot harder to get more speed out of a slow bow if you feel you need more.
I like that line of thought   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Littlejake on March 06, 2007, 02:14:00 PM
Speed is good for race cars.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: PigStikker on March 06, 2007, 02:20:00 PM
Guys,
read "The Unbearable Lightness of Arrows" in the recent edition of TBM and you will become enlightened.  Ashby has got it figured out, and this article summarizes his findings which are posted here.  The article also references his research threads here.

Matt
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: bjk on March 06, 2007, 02:22:00 PM
If speed didn't matter, we would all just run at the animals/targets with the arrow in our hand...some obviously faster than others, so in that case, we'd likely still be talking about it.

Speed matters...anybody who says otherwise is missing a pretty critical piece of the equation.

How much?  Well...why open pandoras box when I know what is inside.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on March 06, 2007, 02:36:00 PM
If we didn't want speed, we would be using atl-atl's instead of bows.

My personal crietria run like this:

1. Feel

2.  Noise

3. Speed

4.  Looks


I'm sure we all put them in different order.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Gray Buffalo on March 06, 2007, 02:55:00 PM
That Jeff depends

1. Does it look good in my hands
2. Will the other hunters be envious
3. Does it hit what I'm aiming at

speed has nothing to do with it

 :smileystooges:    :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Chris Wilson on March 06, 2007, 03:01:00 PM
Speed matters.

shootability matters.

How quiet a bow is matters.

The key is finding a bow that looks good and has a good balance of the three.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Stu on March 06, 2007, 03:23:00 PM
First, I don't chrono so all this is objective. That said, speed is plain old fun to see if nothing else.  I first want smoothness of draw, tuneability & stability in hand, but given that, the bow that appears to "zing" an arrow is just plain fun to shoot. I shoot rifles too, and always wanted a .220 Swift for one reason only: speed. A golf ball ripped off the tee and appearing to rocket away? Wish I could do it. Heck, I love fast cars, too.

But it's a balance. I've left faster bows on the bench and hunted with slower bows that were smoother, steadier, or just plain felt better to me. I like it but don't chase it.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: mcgroundstalker on March 06, 2007, 03:27:00 PM
O.K., O.K., O.K. Now...If it looks good and feels good and makes all the right sounds...Don't care who you are...Any red blooded male is gonna #*%# fast!!!

That's Speed For Ya!!!

... mike ... :p
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: SpikeMaster on March 06, 2007, 03:32:00 PM
I'm with Jeff in exactly that order.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Grizz 53 on March 06, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I'm just an ole wheelbow shooter with an inquiring mind. I just can't shoot a bow without knowing how fast that arrow is traveling. PS: I don't like cars without speedometers either.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: swampbuck on March 06, 2007, 04:21:00 PM
LOL I,d put looks at the bottom she hasta perform what she looks like is irrelevent when it comes to getting the job done.

Kinda like going out to buy a used truck I look for the best bargin and how well it runs my wife says "what color" LOL "who care's"

This isn,t really a fashion statement now is it?Please don,t get me wrong I like a purdy bow same as the next guy/gal but if it doesn,t do what I want looks don,t mean nothin unless maybe your buyion 1 of those 75$ BW arrows for the wall LOL
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: James Wrenn on March 06, 2007, 04:25:00 PM
For me feel is #1 with any bow.After that performance.Looks I can live with if it shoots good.Quiet has to be a given or I will not hunt with it.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: woodchucker on March 06, 2007, 05:01:00 PM
"Speed is Good.....Accurracy is Final"

(Wild Bill Hickock)
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Doug Treat on March 06, 2007, 07:03:00 PM
Here's my take.  The slower bow needs a heavier arrow to get the same penetration, making it even slower.  From 20 yds. it doesn't make any difference in trajectory but from 30+ yds. you sure can tell.  If someone wants to shoot a really slow selfbow because they made it, they can get the same penetration as a really fast compound if they shoot a heavy arrow (refer to above post about Dr. Ashby's findings) which will, most likely, restrict the yardage they are able to shoot.  So, it's more a matter of how far away you want to be from the animal you're hunting.  Close and slow or far and fast?
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: BodarkOkie on March 06, 2007, 07:15:00 PM
Bottom line is.....

To be effective, the arrow must at least clear the shelf upon release!!!      :rolleyes:
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Orion on March 06, 2007, 10:35:00 PM
Re difference in penetration between your arrow and your brother-in-laws.  Arrow diameter has a lot to do with penetration, as does the type of point.  Smaller diameter arrows/points penetrate better  Of course, how well the bow/arrow combination is tuned for good arrow flight also affects penetration.  Is your bow 48# at 28 inches or 48# at 29 inches.  Does your brother-in-law draw his bow to 28 inches?  Otherwise, the draw weight marked on the bow at 28 inches may not be what he's actually pulling.  In short, there's a lot of things that may explain the difference between penetration.  Speed is one of them, but not the only one.  You may not be comparing apples to apples.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on March 07, 2007, 12:45:00 AM
All else being equal (noise, feel, stability etc.), I'll generally take the faster bow over the slower one. What I won't do though, is start buying and selling bows, spend thousands of dollars and go to extremes chasing an extra 3 or 5 fps.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Grizz 53 on March 07, 2007, 07:44:00 AM
Oh make no mistake about my take on slow bows and heavy arrows. I'm not knocking either one. My brother-in-law has taken 6 african big game animals and 2 nice bucks in the mountains of Arkansas. Proof that fast bows and screaming arrows arn't required to produce bow kills. But I sure have enjoyed ya'lls take on speed and penatration vs quiet and smooth.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: DarkeGreen on March 07, 2007, 08:11:00 AM
I have one Osage bow that is so slow, I shot at a doe one year during the rut, she dropped two fawns and had them weened before the arrow got to her. Okay it just seemed that slow when I watched her move out of the way of the arrow. She just stood and watched it fly by after moving out of the way. There was no way I wasn't going to try again. That was the last time I ever took that bow hunting.

I want to at least had a fighting chance when I launch an arrow.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Grizz 53 on March 07, 2007, 08:15:00 AM
Thats my point exactly Darkegreen. I have heard it said many times when you go after whitetails you better have all the odds stacked in your favor... even then its a tough challenge.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: JL on March 07, 2007, 08:33:00 AM
I guess we get conditioned to what we know. With that being said, I shoot GT's out of my Border TD and it is the most consistant shooting bow that I have ever owned and it is also the fastest. I also have a 65 Kodiak that I can shoot well. It's not nearly the barnburner the Border is but I can shoot it well.

To me, shooting qualities/accuraccy is number one priority. If I can't hit what I'm aiming at, whats the use of having it?  Not saying that bow won't be the cats meow for another fella, as we are all different, just not my cup of tea.

If a fella has always shot a 175fps bow and then lets one go from a 210fps bow, I would think that would make a pretty big impression. There are a lot of different bows out there.

I spend more shooting time on stumps/targets with the kids then I do in a treestand. We enjoy shooting year round to keep sharp come hunting season.

JL
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: DarkeGreen on March 07, 2007, 12:31:00 PM
The longbow I shoot now is in the 170s to maybe 180 fps range(depending on the arrows I shoot)and I think it's perfect. That's not to say I wouldn't shoot a 45 or 50#@28" 300 fps osage selfbow if that were possible.  :)
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Pat B on March 07, 2007, 01:21:00 PM
Lord, I hope it doesn't matter. My self bows, on a good day, probably shoot 160 at best...but I have no problem putting arrows where they need to be and thats what matters.   Pat
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: kyle on March 07, 2007, 02:57:00 PM
to answer the original question pointedly

Does speed matter?

sure it does but it isn't the ONLY thing that matters like many folks make it out to be.

Question: would you rather get hit by a baseball travelling 45 miles per hour or a racquetball at the same speed?  Or look at it another way - would you rather me throw a baseball or racquetball at you (and hit you with it).  I'm pretty sure I can throw the racquetball a little faster than the baseball, but which one packs more of a wallop on the other end.

speed doesn't kill......well placed sharp broadheads do.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: southernarcher on March 07, 2007, 03:13:00 PM
Racquetballs hurt!
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Grizz 53 on March 07, 2007, 04:11:00 PM
Guess it stems from my wheelbow days. I have a phobia about them dang string jumpers. I was out stumpin the other day and had a robin jump string on me!
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: DesertDude on March 07, 2007, 04:47:00 PM
Question:  Does Speed Matter?

Answer:    Yes....
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: buck-tamer00 on March 07, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
kyle said it best!!!
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: NorthShoreLB on March 07, 2007, 11:52:00 PM
If you hit the rigth spot with a decent weigth arrow at 160 fps, you'll have a kill.

Same spot same arrow at 195fps, you'll have a kill.

does speed matter?...I guess in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: DesertDude on March 08, 2007, 10:58:00 AM
That statement is Miss leading NSLB and unfinished.  To many Options, type of animal, weight of arrow, type of BH, Shot angle, Hit bone or not...The list could go on.  This "Speed issue is a bug under your skin for some reason...Let it go........Mark
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Terry Green on March 08, 2007, 11:18:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by NorthShoreLB:
If you hit the rigth spot with a decent weigth arrow at 160 fps, you'll have a kill.

Same spot same arrow at 195fps, you'll have a kill.

does speed matter?...I guess in the eye of the beholder.
If you hit the rigth spot with a decent weigth arrow at 150 fps, you'll have a kill.

Same spot same arrow at 185fps, you'll have a kill.

does speed matter?...I guess in the eye of the beholder.

...........

If you hit the rigth spot with a decent weigth arrow at 140 fps, you'll have a kill.

Same spot same arrow at 175fps, you'll have a kill.

does speed matter?...I guess in the eye of the beholder.


............

If you hit the rigth spot with a decent weigth arrow at 130 fps, you'll have a kill.

Same spot same arrow at 165fps, you'll have a kill.

does speed matter?...I guess in the eye of the beholder.

...........

If you hit the rigth spot with a decent weigth arrow at 120 fps, you'll have a kill.

Same spot same arrow at 155fps, you'll have a kill.

does speed matter?...I guess in the eye of the beholder.

...........

The Orkin Man is on the way.....
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: DesertDude on March 08, 2007, 11:28:00 AM
lol   your killin me Terry, Now is that at 120 fps or at 85 fps............
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: JC on March 08, 2007, 11:34:00 AM
KYLE!!!  WHAR YA BEEN BRO?!?!?!!  :wavey:
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: vermonster13 on March 08, 2007, 12:13:00 PM
Would you rather have a baseball thrown by a little leaguer hit you or one by Nolan Ryan?
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: bjk on March 08, 2007, 12:18:00 PM
DD really answered it perfect...Speed matters...without it you are holding an arrow.  It isn't in the eye of the beholder...unless the beholder wants to make a pen out of an arrow and write with it...then I agree, speed doesn't matter...unless you are using it to take a timed test, then we are back to square one.


Can I come hunting too, Terry...please   :pray:
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: bjk on March 08, 2007, 12:19:00 PM
Keep in mind, David, that some of these little leaguers are 20+ years old  ;)
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Haldir on March 12, 2007, 08:40:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
Would you rather have a baseball thrown by a little leaguer hit you or one by Nolan Ryan?
Depends...Is that Nolan Ryan NOW??  or a few years back???   :p
Title: Re: does speed matter
Post by: Tree man on March 13, 2007, 10:38:00 AM
Lots of good reponses. My own observation is that -Yes , speed matters but not nearly as much as many people seem to believe.

I missed some game really fast.....and hit my first deer fairly slowly. Hitting slow always trumps missing fast.