I have used on and off for many years . 125 gr Eskimo 2 blade the original ones . I get them sharp but never as sharp as I would like . Is there a secret I am missing ? I use file to start with and than take it down to ceramics and even leather .What kind and number file ? I even used that pre set angled stone . Just not hair shaving sharp . Will kill a deer but just not 100 percent satisfied and takes a long time. Any help appreciated.
I always have found the Zwickey to be very easy to make scary sharp. I have successfully used the Tru-angle system
I don't use any of those extra things you mention and I can get them to shave ........... with only the file. Pressure and patients is what will get you there. At this stage of the game I can tell you I have own and tried every sharpening method commonly used to get broadheads sharp. 2 blade and 3 blade. Almost all of them work very well. Some are way more involved than others. I think there are only 3 tools a person would every need in order to get heads to the right sharpness........ 12" single cut mill bastard file, 6 - 8" same, and a diamond hone stick (jewel stick) if you feel like giving them a little extra love. You don't need anything else for a Zwick. On a Delta, I will use the 12" only to set my bevels. After that heads bevel is established, it most likely never sees the 12 incher again......only the shorter file...... then maybe the jewel stick. It is all about pressure and patients .......how your pressure level evolves (decreases) throughout the sequence. It is a metered thing that takes practice. I have ruined a ton of heads over the years (making them ugly or taking off so much metal that the weight and cutting diameter has changed) before getting this down.
You can raise a burr with a file and remove that burr with a file, ending the process with so little pressure that barely the weight of the file is resting on the head.
You will be left with a RAZOR sharp head! And the beauty is, you can do it in the field without carrying all kinds of crap with ya. It takes practice to do this to where you can leave the head looking tight and clean too. You will rub the ferrule at first and tag your blade corners.....you will see file marks and such. It will never look quite like a head sharpened on a belt sander or buffed on a paper wheel with compound to a chrome like razor finish. But with practice you will develop accuracy and your heads will be clean and tight and razor ....... with a nothing fancy tool you can pack with you anywhere, anytime.
Zwicky broadheads are made from a 1070 steel, are heat treated to be very tough, but are also quite soft.
Thats why you can sharpen them with a file. In my experience, the razor hair popping sharpness people get with a file is from the burr. It'll shave and feels sharp, but it's very fragile. Just going in and out of the quiver will dull it. In my opinion, this is why so many pictures of Fred Bear sitting in camp sharpening broadheads exist.
The best edge possible is a polished edge, and I'd recommend a jig of some kind. The 3D printed one from Inovative Outdoorsman has a good reputation. Harder steels will be better (sharper, stay sharp longer), but the Zwicky's will still do well.
I use the Stay Sharp guide on mine.
I use a file with decreasing pressure to establish me edge, then softly to remove burr and then use the jewel stick to polish it up. I've been using a file for some many years it second nature.
The Tru-Angle block system makes them like Gillette razors. I have used them for over 30 years.
Been hunting with them pretty much exclusively since the 80s, sharpening them is not much of a problem. The only real issue is the tri-lam hump at times, but not that big of a deal. I've used all sorts of methods to sharpen them, even polishing the edges with a dremel tool and jewler's rouge for a mirror finish at times.
Never move on from 1st abrasive til you are shaving.
Oregon and Stihl brand chainsaw flat mill files are the best I have been able to find recently. Finer cut than bastard and great file steel. I remove the burr with a hard Arkansas stone or ceramic and then strop. Doesn't take long and gives a very sharp edge.
When starting out I use a black marker on the Edge thin clean up the angle then us marker again take same number of stokes with a file on each side say like five then decrease strokes and pressure be sure to raise a bur before flipping to other side and black with marker work down to one stroke per side being sure to raise a bur then just use the weight of the file and go slowly to remove the tiny bur left use the marker to be sure you are getting the angle correct.do single stokes on each side several times lightly with no pressure should be hair popping sharp I then use a fine Arkansas stone to lightly polish the edge then a leather strop
I'm lazy. Use an Accu-Sharp tool to get them shaving sharp.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2:
I use a 8" or a 10" mill bastard file, then a diamond stone for a few strokes and finish with a steel. They always sharpen easily and very sharp.
Ever notice that the known knife makers don't usually respond to one of these threads?
Wonder why that is? :saywhat:
File then use a glass ceramic rod I acquired from industrial lighting. But mainly I just like to say Zwickey.
i use the files with the safe edges on the narrow sides, the file teeth come to a definite abrupt end with those. I mark the edges with a felt tip, I have been doing that since the 70s, remove it with file strokes, remark and do it again with fewer and lighter strokes. Chase the bur to a minimum, then a few strokes with a diamond hone. Then taking the file reversed and tilted using those file teeth at a 45 by 45 degree angle, I pull a serration with medium pressure, then gently clean the edge with a diamond hone and leather strop. Go ahead a say that does not work like something you can shave your cat with, but with any 1 to 3 or soft head, it make a strong edge that kills deer very effectively. Shaving cats is harder than you may think, good thing we don't shave deer, we kill them and eat them.
Quote from: tdc rangemaster on February 27, 2022, 02:08:48 PM
File then use a glass ceramic rod I acquired from industrial lighting. But mainly I just like to say Zwickey.
I guess I'm not a "known" knife maker but I have been a maker of blades. What is there to respond to? If a hunter is happy with the performance after using only a file then it must be good enough. A wise man once said "What works, works." Nobody with any experience or knowledge about a blade edge would argue that a file is the best way to put a fine edge on a blade. A broadhead is a special case as blades go. You use it once and re-sharpen.
A broadhead isn't used the same as other blades and, at least in some, the heat treating is also different.
So I guess whatever works, works. I sharpen my zwickeys basically the same as I do any other blade. I only use a file when I have to hog off a bunch of metal. Even then I don't like it. My Zwickeys have some spots that are harder than others...so the file bites in places and skates in others...it's an awful feeling. If a knife came out that way I'd toss it back in the forge and try again. But it's not a knife.
All that said I've used all sorts of things to hone an edge. I've used rocks out of the river. I've seen it done on a concrete block.
Once I was out hunting using a plains style quiver that I made out of wool. I sat in my hide, went to nock an arrow and noticed it was pretty dull...they all were. I didn't have any sharpening tools so I started searching for something that would "work". I had one of those store bought ferro rod kids that come in a water proof case with a cotton ball and a striker. The striker is pretty hard stuff. I used it like a steel and brought two broadheads back to sharp. I figured that two would be plenty and as it turned out I didn't need any. LOL
I suppose a file used in such a way that it isn't cutting is just a make shift steel. Not a new idea.
Remember those Bear carbide thingies stuck in a plastic dubber? They were great for touching up a head in the field. Howard Hill used a bigger one, two carbide discs mounted on two crossed metal flats. That worked even better, I borrowed mine out and it never got returned, I would get another if I could find one.
I respect that there are a lot of experienced folks who can get a head sharp with a file. Heck back it the day our sickles and axe heads were sharpened that way. However that is fairly soft steel. I prefer a harder steel head and honestly, if you look at a filed sharp head vs a stripped head with a good magnifier glass you'll see the difference.
I sure don't want my surgeon touching up his scalpel with a mill file.
That said, the micro serrated edge a file creates is quite effective if done well. I just don't have that skill. So I use stone and steel. Which means if the head type is that which is best done by file, I have to find a different one. :biglaugh:
I use one of those paper wheels and they are super sharp.
Agree, there are some heads that are not file friendly. File friendly heads are softer metal and need a stronger edge that works for them. People always claim that my lightly serrated heads pull hair through the wound, in over 50 deer I have yet to see that, but i did find a replaceable blade head on an arrow that had a dry covering of deer hair and under that a bloody covering of deer hair, it was also missing a vane. Under all of that the edges seemed sharp. My guess is that head when not flying true punched its way through the deer at a bad angle that rendered the cutting action ineffective. It was a 2419 full length, either the boy was very big and strong that shot it or the arrow was totally over spited for whatever bow he was using. I found the missing vane on the entrance side a dead doe several hundred yards later, not a drop of blood anywhere that I could find. What works, works, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I am still not an expert on sharpening even though I have been doing it for many years. The only advice I can give is that you should not use excessive pressure with either a file or a stone. A smooth, even stroke seems to give better results.
Just a different point on Zwickey 2 blade glue on.
The ones I have 125grain, weigh on average 138.6 grains
do all broadheads have the same problem of being 10/20 grains heavier.
And why don't the makers give the correct weight.
The Zwickeys I have are supposed to be 135 not 125. Maybe that's why they weigh heavy for you
Yes, the Deltas weigh 135, when you sharpen that 138 it'll weigh closer to 135. Either way, its not going to make a hill of beans.
I just weighed my stash of new Zwickeys and compared them to one that has been sharpened and re-sharpened several times. Like stated above, the 3 or 4 grains weight comes down to and even below the target weight very quickly. If you get a vastly different reading, first check the scale.
[attachment=1,msg2993364]I love the eskimos and no mercy's. I do have a few deltas but haven't hunted with them yet.
This momma didn't know how lucky she was to have a little one with her or she would have seen the Zwickey curse!
Not long ago, we were at a public hunting area. I young snot saw my husband Larry Dean touching up my Zwickeys at the car and he expressed his doubt about if they were good enough for an Iowa deer. Then proudly said, "This is what ya'll need right here.", while pulling a nosed mechanical head. He went on and on about how much better they were. While, my arrow went through the deer I shot and stuckinthe dirt. The poor deer tried to make it over the hill, but died quietly about 80 yards from me. He came around with his bright flash light while we were carting mine out. He claimed that he hit a buck, but it did not leave a blood trail and most of the arrow was sticking out as it ran away. He was still looking the next day according to what we were told and still could not find it. I will stick with Zwickeys.
I just got a new scale so I weighed three screw-in eskelites yesterday. they came in at 133.8, 140.x and 142.x. The light one has been through a deer and into the mud so it's had more sharpening.
Everything else reads what it should on the scale so I believe the reading.
First year I've used them since I used eskimos probably 15 years ago. Used a lansky then. Used the stay sharp jig I use with my Simmons heads and it worked great on the single bevel no mercy. Marked the edges with a sharpie and used the round file. Had spots that took much longer than the rest to get the bevel even. Finished with a ceramic rod. Boy it got them super sharp! Did fantastic on the 2 deer I took too.
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I recognize the shaft varmint101 ....
:goldtooth:
Been using a file on them for 50 years. I do nothing but use the file and nothing else. I like that rough edge a file leaves on them. I touch them up almost every time before I go out.
Try a RADA sharpener, 10-15 bucks . I use it on all my blades except axes , even my 3 blade woodsmen
Terry Green has a video in the How To forum. And Tom Musatto has a serrated method as well.
Lately I use a rada wheelie sharpener and strop on a piece of cardboard. I like to keep it simple. The broadhead has to be sharp enough to get the job done, then it goes back in the quiver, if the arrow survives! Repeat the process when back in camp or home. Guess I'm just not sharpening obsessed anymore.
I'm not saying any one right or wrong. I'll be the first to admit that any reasonably sharp broadhead will kill with decent shot placement and time.
But.
As a guy who makes knives, I feel obligated to give an opinion in RADA type sharpeners. The "edge" they create is really just torn and jagged metal. It's not so much to planes of steel intersecting to create an apex, focusing pressure and thereby cutting.
It's more like what's left over after using a can opener mixed with a steak knife.
Will these edges cut? Yes, are there ways absolutely.
The RADA removes metal by scraping it off, so do other carbide sharpeners. However, like when one uses a file with lighter and lighter pressure, the same should be done with carbide sharpeners. A couple of very light strokes with a diamond file or strokes on a leather belt will clean up the edge as well.
One thing that cannot be done as easy with the single bevel, the laminates, No Mercy that I do with my single bevel Hills and Grizzlies is forward flat side serrated cutting teeth. On those I get them sharp enough to cut hair, then with the raw corners of a files with safety edges, at a 45 by 45 degree angle, I serrate the beveled edge. Then flat file the flat side with either a file a a flat diamond hone to remove the chunky stuff, then lightly dress the beveled side as well. This puts very clean little concave serrations that are super sharp and on the side of the single bevel flat, which is the direction that the head is rotating towards. A softer metal needs an edge that can hold up to initial hair and bone contact. Regardless of what some will say, this does not jam up with hair, bone or gristle when going through a deer.
I have been filing Zwickeys since 1964.
I've never used a Zwickey, no reason, just haven't. For two blades (I used Bear Razor heads the first 15-20 years of bowhunting) I always used vertical crock sticks mounted on the standard chunk of wood.
I use a KME sharpener on various grit stones or a paper wheel setup on a bench grinder.
Quote from: MSU on March 06, 2022, 07:32:19 AM
I have been filing Zwickeys since 1964.
MY HERO!!!!
Yes, people have been sharpening Zs for ever. Wake up momma boys.