This is my 1st year turkey hunting and i'm curious about what heads to use. The guide taking me recommended a mechanical even though I shoot a 59# longbow. His reason is he believes it to be easier to find the bird with the arrow still in the bird instead of a pass through. I shoot a 125 grain head and appreciate any feedback.
You aren't going to shoot thru(arrow completely thru,laying on the other side) too many turkeys with a trad bow and big BH's...period!
Turkeys have very,very hard bones and when hit absorb a lot of energy because they're not grounded with a lot of weight,like a deer. You can literally knock them off their feet when hit.
Use the biggest,baddest multi blade fixed head you can......I prefer a 160 Snuffer,but the 125 will work fine. I like the bigger heavier version....
Listen to Curt. Using a mechanical "could" lead to bounce off penetration. Turkeys are much tougher than most give them credit for.
The biggest fixed blade you can shoot, 3 or 4 blade is the ticket.
The Snuffer is a great choice for several reasons. :thumbsup:
A friend of mine shooting a 65# compound had an expandable head bounce right back at him after hitting a turkey with it in the wing butt area. Needless to say he didn't get the bird.
I agree with the folks above. Shoot a fixed blade head, and a lot of blades doesn't hurt. I use 4-blade Zwickey Deltas and Eskimos.
Nothing better for turkey than a 160 Snuffer.
Something with multiple blades and a wide cutting area. The bigger snuffers are great as are the Zephyr sasquatch with bleeder blades.
Use a 160 gr Snuffer for killing and a string tracker for finding. The latter should be mandatory and if you don't use the former just plan on more string.
Bowmania
what do you guys think about the woodsmens for turkeys?
I don't know about harder bones or not harder, but I think turkeys have a unique concern. You have to get thru a bunch of feathers that act a bit like kevlar, then, the thing only weighs 20-30 pounds and stands on two feet. You are very likely to knock it over or at least move it on the hit. This means that the arrow flight is disrupted and penetration will be lousy, compared to that on a heavier animal. Add to that the fact that a turkey kill area is tiny and maybe not where you might expect it, and you have problems killing turkey with a bow.
ChuckC
I'll second the 'no mechanicals' vote. Heavy bow and hefty arrow weight = and big rigid broadhead. Lower poundage bows = any of the wider cut 2 blades. Turkey feathers are tough and absorb a lot of energy. An off-center hit can easily cause deflection with ANY setup, but mechanicals are the worst! I like the bigger Sharks with bleeder blades for turkey.
Ed
This head was designed specifically for Turkey. Believe it or not. But it did pretty good on World record bears :D ...Van
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/VanTX/Broadheads/Big_Deadhead.jpg)
Tim, I've killed a few with WW,they work fine.But I just prefer the Snuffer for more damage on less than pefect hits...
I'm with Curt on this ...last one I killed was with a WW, and I will still have at least 1 in the quiver in case the turkey hunt turns into a hog hunt... but the rest will be 160 snuffers using a 100 gr adapter.
I used a magnus 160 2-blade with a 50 lb longbow and shot straight thru my bird
rob
...
Like Van said, but with a slight modification.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/ccbunn/100_2943.jpg)
I have taken several gobblers with my recurve and all have fallen to a Muzzy 125 4bl head, it works perfectly on the birds I shot and I do not use a stopper with trad equipment, there is not enough energy to get adequate penetration with a stopper. All my shots have been hanging by the fletch, half way thru or broadhead fully imbedded. I never had one shoot all the way thru a bird. Mark
Joebuck, sorry but you are incorrect, ya can buy heavy line for the string tracker and it is one of the best ways to insure recovery. I have shot birds with 65# bows and big snuffer and have never gottena pass thru. I did shoot thru one young hen, but that was with a lighter bow and a small 8-10 pound bird. You do not want anything to impede penetration. Green, listen to Curt(Guru)he has killed more birds with his bow than most will ever shoot at!! Shawn
I think the guide is right about keeping the arrow in the bird. I have shot about 20 now. I use my same setup for deer (because I am used to it) then I put a muzzy grasshopper behind the broadhead. Only weighs 5 grains and doesn't affect flight. Not every store has these but you can order them. It is easier to recover the bird if the arrow is still in it. Another suggestion is to not run after it. Many times The big gobblers will lay down at the hit. Shoot again and again before you start chasin. Jakes on the other hand seem to take off,running or flying when I hit them. Might have something to do with dominance thing.
If you use woodies then the grasshoppers won't work. There is another kind that slides up the arrow and has the prongs but I don't know what the name is. Remember you want to shoot a setup you have shot or can shoot acuratly. If you don't hit the bird it won't matter.
Good luck.
I'll bet this would make good turkey medicine.
Muzzy #285, 150 gr. 4 blade glue on.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/ccbunn/100_1979.jpg)
Curt and Joey (joebuck) both have a lot of turkey hunting experience....take notes and use what you think is best for you.
We are lucky to have guys like them with a wealth of experience to draw from.
Everyone has opinions based on their own experience.Just like most things,they will differ from person to person.
My big snuffers shoot as accurate as any other BH I've tried,I can shoot them side by side with field points,I'll show anyone that doubts that. I'll stick with bigger is better. I've also done well with the WW and wouldn't hesitate to use most other big ,multi bladed heads or a Muzzy multi bl. bh,I consider them the best non-fixed bh on the market. But of course you have to tune,just as you would with any other bh.....just my opinion.....
I didn't realize I was bowfishing all this time.. :rolleyes: ;)
My string tracker set up with the #30 string,doesn't hurt my accuracy one bit,again ,I'll prove to anyone that doubts.Of course there's always the chance of breakage,but that's a chance I'll take....again,just my opinion.....
So how do you go about getting the string tracker with the 30 lb string?
So broadheads and a string tracker....sounds like I might get into spring turkey again. Ya gotta love traditional gear....
Besides...I need to increase my wing feather stock.
Getting back to this thread....the biggest gobbler I ever shot was with a compound(before my "crossing over"). 27 or so yards...125 thunderhead out of an 84 # Jennings. Didnt go through either. I have also shot a few more, once took off a wing completely...that bird ran about fifty yards and bled out. When the arrow hit(out of the same set up as above) it sliced the wing off completely and then deflected off and up into the trees.
I did have one pass through on a large hen, but I was very high in a treestand for that one.
I think if the set up works for you, stick with it and try to be as accurate as possible...I think a lot of stuff already mentioned rings true. Turkeys have a much smaller vital zone than many animals...that being said, I think a large cutting diameter BH would exploit any hit.
Either way, Im gonna be practicing like I know how...hoping to actually make it to full draw this spring.
Ga.Boy, you have the ultimate broadhead. Deadhead with a Bear bleeder. Unbelievable :bigsmyl: Tell me more :D ...Van
Hope you don't mind if I save a copy of your pic. That's too cool :wavey: ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/curtsstuff125.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/curtsstuff144.jpg)
Duckbutt, #30 line for the Game Tracker unit I use can be bought at:
turkeyhuntingsecrets.com
Van, I bought 6 Deadheads on ebay in 2004 thinking they were original. When they arrived, I noticed the slots and asked my mentor, the late Bob Gosdeck about them. He had never seen them either so he asked Lamont Grainger at The Footed Shaft about them. Here is what I found out:
From: "Bob" Add to Address Book Block Sender | Block Domain
Date: 2004/02/11 Wed AM 09:25:51 EST
To:
Subject: Fw: Deadhead
Chuck-- Here is what I found out about the broadhead!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Lamont Granger
To: milford33@charter.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 8:15 AM
Subject: Deadhead
Bob,
The Ben Pearson Deadhead on the right is one that someone used a dremmel tool on and cut a slot in it. It was quite common for people to do this years ago. Bob Kadlec
(National archery Champion in the late 50's-early 60's from Rochester used this broadhead, slotted to take the heavy duty bleeder blade from the old Ace broadheads.
Cut deer in half!!
Lamont
As you can see, I hoard my emails. LOL. I only have the 1 slotted left, but I have six originals that I am going to get slotted as soon as I find someone with steady enough hands to do the job properly. I was thinking along the lines of the thicker bleeders like Simmons uses. I havn't used one yet, but plan to this year on turkey and Whitetail. They ought to be devestating.
Chuck
I forgot to mention I use a 2 blade head and hide 2 of the prongs behind the blades. I have only lost 1 bird out of 19.
Guru, I shot the string ytacker a few times and didn't see any flight problems at all, until about 25 yards when the drop started. But thats to far for me anyway. I usually shoot 15 yds and in. You might get those snuffers to fly great. I can't. I always tell guys to use the setup they are used to and if it's a 2 blade like mine, do something to keep the arrow from going thru like the grasshopper. I shoot 60#. A 48 # bow wouldn't need the grasshopper. Anyway I hope he egts a good setup from all of our differences and kills a bird or 2. :)
My turkey hunting experience with a bow is very limited. I used a 125 grain snuffer last year and it did the job. This year I'm working with a different bow and I've had to go to 125 grain razorcap to get the arrow flight I need. Who would have thought there would be a difference in those two heads, go figure. I used a string tracker for my hunt last year with the 17 lb line. I chased the bird a long way (long story described in the link below) in a semicirle into a bottom and the string held in this one instance. I used a tracker for deer hunting when I first started. I like to use the old spools for practice and then shoot my new spools at least 3-5 times to increase the diameter of the inner hole of the spool. The string seems to "flow" better that way. I'm sure by taking all the advice given here and experimenting you will find what works best for you.
Good Luck,
Doug
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=032738
Thanks Chuck :wavey: What an outstanding bit of knowledge there. Very interesting about Bob Kadlec too. I shot in a group behind him once in 1962. He was was shooting freestyle class with tiny plastic vanes. I think that was the first time I had seen that. It was awesome watching him shoot......Van
Just curious, How many turkeys have Guru and Joebuck killed? And lost? I am not too proud to say that I have lost several birds and I had both pass thru's and arrows hanging in flight. Seems to me that arrow placement with a sharp BH is the answer.
Marty #1181, I will kill one more turkey than i have now if you don't let Biggie and his 4 guests blast them all opening weekend!
Marty You are right. Thats why I tell guys not to change everything to hunt birds. I think Guru shoots those Snuffers well but I doubt if most guys can shoot them acuratly enough to hit such a small target consistantly. I have tried and can't do it. Shoot what you shoot the best. If a grasshopper changed my flight even an inch I wouldn't use them. Even after practicing and practicing from the exact position I have when I am set up (sitting) I still blow shots , usually from turkey fever. Nice decoy Joebuck!
Doug, I totally agree,the tracker is only good for about 25yds,that's about 10yds further than I care to shoot at one anyway.I've never shot at one over 20yds. I certainly don't use it as a means of making up for poor shooting.I shoot my big snuffers and heavy arrows at everything I hunt except on my elk hunt(W Woodsman) with my bud Peter Iacavazzi last year.......They fly like darts for me...that's why I use them. Just gotta tune them like you would any other bh. I can also (as stated earlier)shoot them beyond turkey killing range,with tracker attached the same as if it wasn't on........
Doug, why don't you "think most guys can get them to shoot well enough"?? Also why would anyone shoot a diff. BH,or add something to their arrow if it didn't fly good for them?
Trackers aren't for everyone,it's a personal choice just like anything else........has it helped me recover birds?......absolutely....so I'll keep using it.....
Marty, Not enough bud :thumbsup: ....and yes I've lost 2.
One was I believe a low hit in the leg that just cut muscle and didn't break any bones.
The other was a direct hit on the wing butt(found bone from the "ball" of the wingbone) with a WW.Bird dropped like hit with a sledge! My mistake was I relaxed thinking that he was done,he never moved.Thirty seconds later he was up out of sight,taking string for about a minute.....I waited 2 hrs and followed up followed the line right to him after about 50yds found a tangle of line going all over the place.I knew he was right there,but couldn't see him in the rocks and blowdowns.Suddenly he jumped up and fell,tumbled,flopped down the hill in front of me and was out of sight and out of my life forever.The arrow had fallen out as moved around in those 2 hrs I'd waited.I even came back with my birddog..to no avail....
Hope you and Joey have a great hunt!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I have never taken a turkey with a stick bow. 15 yard shots with the bird not pegging you is AMAZING. :notworthy: I may have to try it this year. :pray:
Big Ron, had six jakes at five yards last year before i shot, was my first year with the bow and i am hooked forever.
I haven't used this ACE 160 head for turkeys yet, but I have shot it enough to know that it can't be damaged,with the bleeder it is 200gr. I have also slotted the 160 gr STOS and used a Missle Spike bleeder blade
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raghorn/Ron/Ace_4bld.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raghorn/Ron/dscn0897.jpg)
I've gotten a couple with these BuckBlaster usin' my compound. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Stealthed/04190003.jpg)
They never went more than 10 ft.
This year didn't wanna try a mech with a recurve so I used a 125 Razorback. I think I hit 'em a little high and right, he was runnin' away.
It rolled him, but by the time I got outta the blind he was gone.
Joebuck and Guru, great politically correct answers to the numbers question! I wish you both good luck this season and may feathers fly!
Guru,
I see guys starting turkey hunting who think they have to have a different setup cause thats what they heard. I heard it too when I started. That's why I tell em use what you your used to. It's more important to hit em good. I was trying to stress how acurate you have to be on a turkey.
I think it takes special powers (ability) :)to get those danged big snuffs to fly great. I'll have 2 good at 20 then a weaver and bobber then a slider. I look like a major league pitcher. I don't release perfect every time.
From my observation most trad shooters don't. Those big heads can take over. They seem a little noisy too. I think it's alot of work to get them tuned. I am not willing to do that for the gain, So I use smaller heads and kill stuff quietly. I absolutly beleive you have them mastered though.
I know what you mean when you say you thought that bird was done. Now when I shoot a bird and it lays over quick I think "your not dead you %^$&" and it becomes a whole new hunt. Then I shoot again or crawl up out of sight and grab the sucker. Their sneaky
I switched my set-up years ago to a 3&1/2" magnum w/#4 shot. there's a bowhunting challenge and then there's pure frustration. Hunting turkeys with a longbow is pure frustration to me :-)
Joebuck has been tried and true on this turkey huntin with a bow when all those around him have given up. I'm proud of him for that.
Joey, if you wanna come before my guests, you can always join the club, there is an opening ya know.......
I have lost 1 and my buddy lost 2 before we decided to find out why, what we thought were "perfectly" hit birds, were running off, never to be seen again. We did field autopsy's to examine the vitals and determine where the vitals actually were and where they should be shot, not where most of the "experts" and targets were telling you to shoot them. Several birds later, I can attest that our experimenting has been a success and I always try to share this knowledge to all those getting into it so they do not experience the frustration and sorrow of loosing an animal.
All targets and most people will advise a shot to the wing butt as most effective, granted, I can add that if you hit that 1/2in spot perfectly, it is devestating, but shoot a little high, low or forward and there is nothing vital there and you will loose that bird. The vitals on a turkey are much lower and back then most people realize and their heart actually sits just above the hips on a broadside turkey. I always try to shoot just a little above and just forward of the hips on my birds and I always place my jake decoy around 10-15yds away so I know I will have a close shot. If you hit a little higher or lower you will still get the bird and take out his hips or legs and he will not be able to fly away, at least until you can catch him. If you thump a bird right in the spot, let him go and lay down, even if he does not die immediately, he will be close and by not chasing him, you will allow him to remain in the area and not run or fly where you cannot track them. Occasionally you will hit one that will just drop and lay there, only to jump up and run off, but normally you can still get after the bird and find him, but that is better then jumping up after him and watching them fly off 200 yds. away or more. On straight away shots aim just below the butt and facing shots, just below the beard.
I always recommend using a very large, multi blade head to do the most damage to the bird and do not use any stoppers or adders, your arrow will almost always stay in the bird and you do not need to reduce penetration anymore. I almost lost my 1st bird I shot due to the adder catching the primary wing feathers and not letting the broadhead get into the chest.
I am sharing this information so you can learn from others mistakes and improve your chances on bagging that bird. Mark
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jmb1221/NBEFTurkeyMusclesBones.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jmb1221/NBEFTurkeyOrgans.jpg)
Good photo`s Joebuck. The few I have got my hands on I shot above and forward the drumsticks.I recovered one bird not hit in the body cavity but broke one leg and cut the other off with a landshark . That was luck on a poor shot but it got me thinking too. I lost a bird I hit "perfect" I thought just below the wingbut. He flew across the river.My buddy Mudfeather almost cut ones head off with a Gobbler Gullitine. I personally think this is the way to go. It eliminates the fuss over the string tracker and cuts down on lost birds.You kill`em or you don`t. Anyway thats what my 2020`s will be sport`en this spring.And after those shooting lessons I gave Biggie a few years ago you`d think he could hit a Turkey. ;)
Joey, Those are great anatomy charts,and I agree that arrow in your decoy is perfect.I have some cut- away photos of my bird from last year that show the vitals pretty well...just gotta find them to post...
I'm sure it will help others too....a lot guys really have no idea where to hit a turkey.
....I'm lifting the wing to show the entry hole.A little further back than I would have preferred....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/turkeyautopsy06002.jpg)
You can see in this pic that it went thru the thighs.The tip of the knife is right at the wing butt. A hit between my shot and the wingbutt would be ideal(IMO)......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/turkeyautopsy06003.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/turkeyautopsy06004.jpg)
But it was behind the vitals.....you can see the liver,the heart stuffed up front,and the little lungs sitting right up against the spine.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/turkeyautopsy06005.jpg)
A little closer....Liver(dark red),lungs(bright pink),and the heart up front.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/turkeyautopsy06006.jpg)
This bird dropped like a stone when hit,but managed to flop/try to fly for about 20yds..I had to break his neck when I got to him.....Some folks say to aim for the drumsticks,but to me that would lead to a bunch of cripples getting away, or low breast hits.
You definitely can't shoot them "low in the chest" like most critters.High is way better than low.....
I'd try ancient proven "halfmoon" head. It can be easily done from 9mm (.38 cal) cartridge and half of big steel washer...
Something close to "birdpoint" from Saxton Pope's book
WR, If I'm following......You mean something like the "snaro" bird points?
Curt, I know the head he means. It pretty much looks like those old english and japanese warheads. You know, the ones that people used to say were designed to cut rigging on ships..
hmmmmm....
Guru that is truely amazing.
Curt, is all that interior damage on, if I'm reading correctly, the liver, from your Snuffer...
Chris, actually the Snuffer passed just behind the liver.
Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up...
Ok I have a question for those of you who do this regularly...what is the best body position for a shot(IYO)? Broadside? Strutting? Seems like a strutting tom walking away would be perfect. What are your prefrences?
My favorite shot is just like deer, just very, slightly quarting away and CLOSE. I like to take out the opposite upper leg. To me strutting or not isn't important, but it does make it a little more fun if their strutting.
I shot a couple of Ostrich's with the quarting away shot. I wanted to avoid the leg bones and didn't want to try the head shot. It works well on birds as well as elk,deer, pigs ect...
Uh.....Doug, I don't get it...why quartering away? You havin penetration problems on turkey legbones?????
Seems like a shot at a bird facing you or away is more apt to disable...spine, vitals....a little off in either direction and you should still be ok...I know the one I shot broadside took the hit like a champ, lucky I cut its wing off and it bled out quick.
I'm mmmmmmmissin something here...a turkey or a rabbitt or a coon......there is no reaason to choose a "shot angle" just the correct angle to skewer the vitals.
True Biggie...Im strictly speaking hypothetically.
As it is, Turks have very small vitals, so my point is to take a shot that allows for the human error factor...miss the vitals hit the spine type of thing, if you will. Just seems like the best shot to me.
Biggie
I just like the shot that's all. I find it easier for me to concentrate on a small spot. I hate the frontal shot. Although I have done it. He ask the best positon IYO. That's mine. You can kill em with any position including head shooting them. I have killed them at all angles but that's my favorite. If I miss a little I still get the best results this way IMO. Now ostrich legs should be avoided.
gotcha......
"corner to corner" is a great way to shoot a turkey!! Two of my best shots were like that...one back to front and one front to back...you can see that hunt in the member videos under "Curt Cabrera's hat trick"...as you can see,he didn't go very far!!