Trad Gang,
Long time reader, first time poster. Still somewhat new to Trad, I know enough to be dangerous. Loving the journey thus far.
Question about hunting draw weight.
Where I live, the regulations for White Tail and Wild Turkey say the bow must have a draw weight of at least 18 kilograms (approx. 40lbs) at some point between a draw length of 700 millimetres (approx 28") and the point of string rest. I live in Ontario, Canada.
The way that I interpret that is that I must have #40 @ 28". That means it would be illegal to hunt with a #35 @ 28" which is pulling approx. #43 at my 31" draw....? I haven't hunted with a recurve yet, and thus why I am asking this question.
Today I am learning the ropes on a Fred Bear Super Kodiak 60" #30. Feeling like I am ready to start figuring out what my hunting bow is going to look like, and thus hoping to get some clarification on the above :biglaugh:!
I would get ahold of your local fish and game and get their opinion. Whereas I believe if you ever actually ended up in court, you would be fine, it would be a lot easier not to have to go to court and unless you are they have a scale on them how are they going to know how much you pull?
To paraphrase what David said above, they are going to look at the marked weight on the bow, if they bother to look at all. Logically, if your longer draw length makes a bow marked at 35# into 40#, they should accept that. But I would imagine if the bow says 40# and someone is only drawing 26", they would probably not have to explain anything, whereas you would.
Send me a pm and your phone #. I'll give you a call. I can explain things a lot faster that way .
I called and confirmed.
They said it must be 18kg (approx 40lbs) at 700mm (approx 28") draw length.
It makes sense from an enforcement perspective, I guess it's easier to check whatever is printed on the limb.
I feel discriminated against being a longer draw that I can't actually shoot 40lbs on the button legally, unless I bought a custom bow that is #40 at 31" :biglaugh: (lol I'm joking....)
Always learning! Thanks everyone.
I checked with a friend who is a retired Conservation Officer, and here in BC the regulations state that the bow must draw 40# at the shooters draw length. The weight at 28" is simply an accepted average draw length. But then again, it would help if the officer at the checkpoint was also a bowhunter. If you do get a custom, the bowyer would certainly print the weight at your 31" if requested.
I've always wondered about this. It's not realistic to game wardens out there measuring the draw length of every traditional hunter out there to make sure they meet the standard and yet, it completely defeats the purpose of the draw weight limits if you don't.
My sister's bow is 40# @ 28" which is legal to hunt with but since she has a 26" draw she technically doesn't meet the spirit of the law. While someone else may be well over the bottom limit with a 35# bow and a 31" draw but technically be illegal. One is under the minimum and legal while the other is over the limit and illegal. Perfect example of how laws aren't always so black and white.
It can be simplified by stating at the draw weight limit of the persons draw length, and that could open another can of worms by the people drawing way more than usual to make the cut if checked, of course the only way to determine that is if the person enforcing it has a accurate scale and is willing to use it, if you think about it if the authorities are going to take the time and effort to check and I think they should on occasion there should be no problem toting a small bow scale to do so. Of course the hunter tax payer will flip the bill for the bow scale. :dunno:
Where I live, the regulations for White Tail and Wild Turkey say the bow must have a draw weight of at least 18 kilograms (approx. 40lbs) at some point between a draw length of 700 millimetres (approx 28") and the point of string REST. I live in Ontario, Canada.
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Brother reread what you wrote. You're completely legal. If your string RESTS at 31" what is the weight? The "at some point" isn't directional, it can be past 28" as well.
Bowguy I'm a little confused what if your draw length is under 28" and bow is 40lbs at 28" you would still be legal even if your draw weight is less than 40lbs ?. Either way what's the point of specifying 28" draw length
The man said he draws 31". His weight is at that 31" draw. Heavier than 40. Now imagine you draw 26". Somewhere between 28" and string rest 26" you never reached 28". That draw might be 37lbs. Not legal if requirement is 40. Imo no one is gonna check that and if so draw to your ear if you wanna get over the law. No requirement as to particular anchor only string rest. Hope that made sense and I'm not condoning breaking law just explaining
I can't say why 28" is even included but the whole law in a nutshell is as I stated imo
I totally understand, I think the draw weight requirement should be calculated at your draw length. Some bows marked at 28" are not correct + or - so what's the point in guessing one way or the other. :dunno:
Having a longer draw myself (30.5"). No one has yet mentioned that the longer draw will often hold at a higher weight than a bow is built to, even if it is set to 40# at 31". A longer draw/power stroke imparts more energy to the arrow than a shorter draw length at the same weight. With that said, it looks like the way the law is written, give some variance to the draw length that 40# is hit at.
Quote from: JamesD on December 21, 2021, 09:57:18 PM
Having a longer draw myself (30.5"). No one has yet mentioned that the longer draw will often hold at a higher weight than a bow is built to, even if it is set to 40# at 31". A longer draw/power stroke imparts more energy to the arrow than a shorter draw length at the same weight. With that said, it looks like the way the law is written, give some variance to the draw length that 40# is hit at.
Nothing to do with the bow or if it holds higher weight than it's built to. It's how much weight the bows holds between at point between 28" and string rest. Weight is weight doesn't matter how it got there. What's the exact weight at that point. There'd be a number associated w it and it is what it is and says nothing about a variance. Not sure how you're reading that. To me it's very clear that nothing matters except actual weight and it offers 2 ways to read it.
My guess is that 28" thing addresses the peak weight of a compound being reached "at some point" previous to the 28". Terrible written law but you're definitely ok imo with a recurve at your draw length.
OP where did you get this info from? When I look up your game laws it shows requirements for bow differing from deer to moose but says nothing about at some point. Says draw of 27.6 or LESS. Than you'd be illegal if you can't reach that requirement
I called and talked to someone at the regulations office. They said the bow must be minimum 18kg at 700mm draw, which is essentially 40# at 28" draw. We discussed for a while and I made sure I fully understand what she was saying.
That's actually exactly how your law reads. Once I looked it up it was clear. Crazy though and sorta unfair to long draw guys. Sounds like someone wrote the law not understanding stykbow
I fully agree with you... also it's why I posted because it seemed odd.
Anyways now I know and I will plan my hunting bow build accordingly!
Good luck buddy
Nice to have another Canadian on here! Good luck with your Trad journey!
Alot of States have similar Regulations, simply put, it states the (Bow) has to meet the specs of weight and length limits it says nothing about the persons draw weight at there draw length operating the Bow. :deadhorse:
Quote from: Mark R on December 23, 2021, 10:05:25 AM
Alot of States have similar Regulations, simply put, it states the (Bow) has to meet the specs of weight and length limits it says nothing about the persons draw weight at there draw length operating the Bow. :deadhorse:
What states are they?
NY simply states it's illegal to hunt with a bow less than 35lbs draw weight. No length, not saying where it needs to hit that weight.
NJ is a little more descript but their law is easily understandable as well
A totally dumb trad bowhunting tackle law created by people who don't know squat about archery, bowhunting, and probably too many other things in life, and yet they seem to get voted into office annually, much to smart people's dismay.
If there needs to be a minimum "hunting bow weight", it should not be the bow's labeled weight (which we all know is usually not all that accurate anyway), it should be the measured holding weight at the archer's full draw length.
Or heck, just remove the current bow's labeled weight and write on yer own - I doubt any official in the field will do more than look at the bow, let alone have the smarts or equipment or the want to check further.
Refinish the handle and mark it 43# @ 31". Problem solved.
Quote from: JohnV on December 24, 2021, 10:24:20 AM
Refinish the handle and mark it 43# @ 31". Problem solved.
No, I'd label it 40@28 - labeling it 43@31 would probably create more of a problem to simple minds.
The last three posts nailed it. The regs were written by people who don't know bows and, knowing our government, don't even know anything about hunting.
The regs could have been written more clearly.
You are legal. My friends and I, who bowhunt meet c o's while moose hunting and they check our licences, but they have never even looked at or bows.
Welcome, by the way!
Dave.
Just how is the exact wording on that Canadian law? It seems that the requirement, as stated, is that the bow must be able to reach 40# pull at 28". It doesn't seem to say that the archer must actually be pulling it 28". The restriction is on the bow not the pull of the archer. Thusly, a 40# bow pulled less than 28" still meets the stated law. Of course, this is a facetious statement, but it does suggest that trad bowhunting organizations should press for clearer and better written laws.
What really matters, if there are to be bowhunting laws, is the holding weight at the archer's full draw. This would require field officials to at least carry a proper and calibrated bow scale.
The fallacy of such "draw weight" laws is that the bowhunter can short draw, which negates any bow draw weight label, and even field testing by officials.
To me, it's all nonsense, and the reality of hunting ethics always has and always will be with the hunter.
Quote from: Sam McMichael on December 25, 2021, 10:29:56 AM
Just how is the exact wording on that Canadian law? It seems that the requirement, as stated, is that the bow must be able to reach 40# pull at 28". It doesn't seem to say that the archer must actually be pulling it 28". The restriction is on the bow not the pull of the archer. Thusly, a 40# bow pulled less than 28" still meets the stated law. Of course, this is a facetious statement, but it does suggest that trad bowhunting organizations should press for clearer and better written laws.
Sam he's not legal. Refer to my pic of the way it's actually worded. It's dumb but he's not. Sorry bud at the end of your quote it seems you understand the law as written. It's really worded bad
Guys I'll say and I don't know exactly how Canada works. Don't claim to either but as a hunter ed instructor I've seen things didn't make sense. Each time I've presented them to our state biologist in charge of hunter ed. Be it a hunter ed question, policy or an improperly written or confusing law, most times we get it resolved and that's just one guy pointing it out. Perhaps the op could try and talk to someone and explain the issue to them?