Has anyone tried drying wood pieces in a oven like you do before stabilization? I just cut up a block a of wood that was suppose to be kiln dried for a riser and it acts like its not super dry. Moister meter says around 10 percent but I don't trust it. I was thinking about trying it just to make sure. If its not dry I have a feeling it's gonna check before it's dry anyway and its already cut into 1/2 inch strips.
I think I would be more inclined to try a microwave rather than an oven,. I think force drying with the oven might induce checking.
I haven't tried it but defrost in microwave was recommended. Let us know how it works for you.
Thanks guys. I'll try it tomorrow. I haven't had much trouble with the wood checking before stabilizing even when it's humid in the summer and all my wood reads over 10%. Only one way to find out I guess.
What about putting it in your bow oven on real low. I would be worried about a kitchen oven heating it too fast and drying the exterior before the interior was warm
Maybe it's me but I don't see a problem with 10%.
Every bow I've made the moisture content has been 10 to 12%, I won't use wood till it's at least 12%.
Maybe those recurves are different?
But I agree with Flem on using the bow oven on low temp.
I dont know what to do. But I can tell you what not to do. Dont use a toaster oven. It starts on fire.
Roy, I agree 10% wouldn't worry me much but I think it's over 10%, I'm sure the moisture meter is only read the outside. It acts like it's not dry. Plus I'm gluing g10 into it and if it isn't as possible I'll be able to feel where the wood and g10 meet. I'm trying the microwave and crossing my fingers it doesn't check.
Well if you wanna put your riser in the microwave then go for it:)
Doesn't sound like a good idea to me, if there is moisture inside the wood, the microwave is going to heat and expand that moisture in my opinion. And maybe cook the wood membrane at the same time?
Like smoking meat low and slow.
Quote from: OldRawhide42 on April 17, 2021, 07:22:11 AM
I dont know what to do. But I can tell you what not to do. Dont use a toaster oven. It starts on fire.
:biglaugh:
Here is my 2 cents... Listen to Roy...
Here is what I do and why... Once my wood gets below 20% MC I dry my wood in a bow oven for about two months... Because I don't know how accurate my moisture meter is I get the wood down to 0 and about 5% MC... Then I let the wood slowly acclimate to the environment by letting it sit in the hot box for a month or two then eventually in my shop... The MC may go back up to 10 to 14 percent and that is ok... It is the nature of the beast... Most areas of the U.S. are gonna be in this zone. I feel it is better that the wood shrink in the bow than to expand while in a bow... If it's gonna shrink at 10 to 14% MC it's should only shrink a little unless you are baking it in your car... And if it expands it is only gonna expand a little... Now if you take it down to 6 to 8% and it is in a 12 to 14% environment it's gonna expand a lot and could crack your glass over top of your riser... I have seen it happen on various commercial bows and on my personal bow... Either way you take your chances... If the wood in the riser is a hair too wet and is exposed to a hot car the wood could split on you... Living in Florida where the air is very moist If I would era on the side of caution I would era with the wood on the moist side vs the dry side... I like to go with nature instead of fighting it... I'll be damned if I am gonna keep my all my wood in a climate controlled room only to expose it to hot cars and rainy days when it is all said and done... By slowly taking down most of my wood down to nearly 0% and then back up again the wood has done everything that it is going to do... If it was gonna crack or check in that time it would have... Another reason I like to go down to near 0% is that a wood drying expert told me that there are two types of cells in wood... They both hold water... If you totally dry both out and the wood is exposed to moisture one cell will take on water again while the other will not.... I could be wrong but there may be an advantage to ridding the wood of all water and then naturally let it get it's fill of water again...
When it comes to drying wood, don't rush anything... Just have to learn to think in advance...
So what do you do when glueing wood to a composite that neither has MC or takes on any moisture. And expands at a different rate to boot.
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I tried the microwave with no bad problems. Dropped the weight about 50 grams so I'm thinking it was dry. I never thought about the fact that I'd ran the g10 thru my drum sander and I think it dulled my new sand paper some. The wood seemed seemed really shiny when it came out of the drum sander yesterday. Probably stressing over nothing
Quote from: Crooked Stic on April 17, 2021, 02:13:28 PM
So what do you do when glueing wood to a composite that neither has MC or takes on any moisture. And expands at a different rate to boot.
I don't use glass in my risers for that very reason... Except for overlays...
Well I think if your wood is dry 6 to8 percent it should not move and you should have no problems. I used to think the same way. But a man who builds a ton more bows than me convinced me otherwise.
how much a wood moves with moisture removal or uptake differs for each species. Also to be considered is the orientation of the grain, tangential or radial. A glued up assembly does best when the grain orientation and shrinkage rate for the adjacent pieces are taken into consideration.
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/dimensional-shrinkage/ (https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/dimensional-shrinkage/)
Good point willi...
Quote from: 4 point on April 17, 2021, 06:21:10 PM
I tried the microwave with no bad problems. Dropped the weight about 50 grams so I'm thinking it was dry. I never thought about the fact that I'd ran the g10 thru my drum sander and I think it dulled my new sand paper some. The wood seemed seemed really shiny when it came out of the drum sander yesterday. Probably stressing over nothing
I discovered that aluminum oxide grinds epoxy better than zirconia's and the opposite is true for wood.
We never asked you what the dimensions of the blocks are, or the species?
I used to make duck decoys and gave the microwave a try for wood drying years ago, bad idea!
First place, to dry the wood you have to make the steam roll to drive the moisture out of the wood. Your wood will have to be hotter than 212 which will temper it and in most cases it will be hot enough to char in the center. I cut into several duck blanks and found charcoal in the center.
Of course you could experiment at a very low microwave setting to dry your wood, to be precise every time, working up this game plan would be tedious and time consuming at best.
Hey Y'all... That tree took a hundred years to get where it got, now you wanna suck the rest of it's life juices out of it in a couple minutes... :nono:
Shreddy, that's why I don't use that phenolic stuff.
I feel bad about all those materials getting ground up to make it, including wood....
And all the oil wasted making those plastic vanes is terrible.
Early on I tried using synthetics in risers, but over time a catch-edge that could felt by the hand would develop, so I stopped using using them. I'm careful about using uniformly dried wood. It is not an issue with glass/wood lams in limbs.
Quote from: Shredd on April 20, 2021, 06:25:23 PM
Hey Y'all... That tree took a hundred years to get where it got, now you wanna suck the rest of it's life juices out of it in a couple minutes... :nono:
Did you suck the life out of that Sheoak you cut :scared:
Quote from: Mad Max on April 21, 2021, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: Shredd on April 20, 2021, 06:25:23 PM
Hey Y'all... That tree took a hundred years to get where it got, now you wanna suck the rest of it's life juices out of it in a couple minutes... :nono:
Did you suck the life out of that Sheoak you cut :scared:
Yes... Slow and steady... Two years of air drying...
Quote from: 4 point on April 16, 2021, 09:48:49 PM
Has anyone tried drying wood pieces in a oven like you do before stabilization? I just cut up a block a of wood that was suppose to be kiln dried for a riser and it acts like its not super dry. Moister meter says around 10 percent but I don't trust it. I was thinking about trying it just to make sure. If its not dry I have a feeling it's gonna check before it's dry anyway and its already cut into 1/2 inch strips.
Have you considered a riser glued up from something less than 1/2" strips? perhaps an alternative to a 2 year long air dry like shredd recommends, is to saw your stock thin, sticker it, plane or sand after a more reasonable drying period... maybe not so thin as to be making your own plywood
To late williwaw. It's glued up. It's a 1/2 inch of g10 with 1/2 ziricote scales on the sides so they needed to be 1/2 inch. It wasn't a green piece of lumber so it definitely didn't need 2 years seasoning. Just thought it seemed a little oilier than normal when I sanded it. If it wouldn't have been properly dried it would've checked and cupped bad in the heat box, it was in there for two days. Ziricote will check bad in my experience.
I can't imagine anyone ever trying to Kiln dry Ziricote! (aka Mexican crack wood!) If you induced any heat to it and it didn't crack, it's likely dry.
Shy of kiln drying, mild educed heat won't hurt the wood. Microwaving works well when done right, but is very tedious. Boiling also works great, but still requires months of drying afterwards.
When the moisture level stops moving, it has hit it's equilibrium and to change that any, you will have to change it's environment. Most woods that will take stabilizing also aren't bad about cracking.. this is why you can bake them in an oven for days without destroying them.
No moisture meter that I'm aware of will read accurately below 5%. unless stabilizing, I would never attempt to reduce my wood below 8%... if it gets lower, so be it, but it's probably an inaccurate reading.
10 years ago, I moved my bow shop from an un insulated or climate controlled horse barn to my current shop. I keep the temp in here at or below 68 degrees year round. My checking and cracking issues have nearly ceased to exist in completed bows. .. having said that, I also buy 20 times more wood than I did back then so letting it sit for years doesn't hurt either.
I just built a new building 50 x 60 and well insulated... half of this is earmarked for our new office/showroom and the other half for climate controlled wood storage. It's the way to go! if you don't have climate controlled space to store your wood, move it in to your house..
BigJim
Good stuff, Thanks Jim...
Jim that was my thinking. If it didn't check It was dry. After day in the hot box I would've thought it would've checked bad if it wasn't dry. It's in a bow now so it is what it is
I have a huge moisture swing in my shop. If I moisture test a piece of wood in the winter at 5% and the same piece will be 10+% in the summer. I wrap dry pieces with cling wrap hoping to stabilize it a little but I'm not sure it helps at all