When I shot compounds in my teenage years, I noticed a big difference in my accuracy when adding a 1 lb stabilizer to the bow. The bow would be rock-solid during the aiming process & my groups would tighten up considerably. But after shooting it like that for a few weeks, the benefits went away and the groups would open back up again. So I'd take the stabilizer off, practice like that for a few weeks, do my best to tighten the groups with a lighter bow, which would be slightly easier since the bow would seem to respond to just light movements & corrections. Then groups would open and I'd add the stabilizer again... Never really knew why this happened -- it just did.
I had almost completely forgotten about this until earlier this week when I put my strap-on quiver on my longbow to prep for the upcoming turkey season. Suddenly, I feel like I can hit everything. I put up a tangerine on a stick and kept hitting the stick inside the tangerine. I put a small, deflated balloon on the same stick and hit it several times. Field positions, standing, kneeling, you name it. Best shooting I've done in a long time. Thinking it was just one of those awesome days, I tried it again the next day -- same results.
Then it hit me -- my bow was heavier. It was just like that old stabilizer but just off to the side instead of out front. It had me wondering if or how others may have already been using this to their advantage -- increasing bow mass to help make a more forgiving shot. I would assume there is a point of diminishing return -- especially for hunting where I'm carrying it around all day for several days in a row. Would a weighted glove offer similar results?
If anybody has played around with this a little, I'm curious about your experiences & insights.
Sam;
Take this for what it's worth ............... I'm no expert but have been around the block a few times.
I think that when you add mass weight to your bow it requires a bit more use of the back muscles to hold the bow up and do the push / pull thing at full draw. Once your body gets used to the increased mass, the back muscles slack off a bit and groups open up.
Again, I'm no expert, but the more I shoot the more that I'm convinced a dropped bow arm or a bad release are just different ways of saying poor back tension.
Are you close to the North end of Los Angles ??? Conejo Valley Archers are putting on an awesome Trad Challenge in May.
Look at the old target bows from the golden age of field archery. They were made with big heavy risers for a reason. I dont think it was just because there was lots of rosewood laying around :)
Pearson had models with drilled holes in the riser full of mercury. Lots of guys like heavy weight materials like phenolic and put on bow quivers and other things to add mass.
R
No doubt that weight helps stabilize the bow, usually improving accuracy. And, a bow quiver adds weight. I put my bow quiver on a few weeks before season and don't take it off until season is over. The additional weight not only helps me hold more solidly, it also quiets the bow a lot. Been doing it that way for more than 40 years.
I believe that at least for me & my shooting style, it's why I seem to prefer my recurves over my longbows-I seem to shoot them better because the mass & weight of the risers helps me to hold them steadier & be more stable through the shot. That may or may not be true, but it's what I think!
My Big River recurve is about longbow weight and GN/Thunderhorn strap on quiver full of arrows does seem to quiet and steady my longbows and recurve. Helps get the right cant as well.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
I'm convinced that additional bow weight helps my accuracy. I have bows that range in weight from a 1 1/2# Ron LaClair Shrew to a 3 1/2# Bob Lee Ultimate. While the weight of the Ultimate is certainly more noticeable in the field than the Shrew, it is not burdensome, and certainly a lot less than a compound bow or a rifle.
I also find that it is useful to switch between the light and heavy weight bows once in a while. After shooting a heavy weight bow for a while, I do have a feeling of loss of control when I pick up a light weight bow. But after shooting the light weight bow for a while, the feeling of control comes back, and I think my accuracy in general improves by the extra attention I have to pay when shooting the light weight bow.
I've never shot with a weighted glove, but fwiw, I don't think that would stabilize the bow like additional bow weight would. For one thing, the location of the weight makes a big difference. One ounce at the end of a long stabilizer makes a big difference, whereas one ounce in the handle does not. Second, we are encouraged to shoot with a light grip, and a light bow would rattle around in a weighted glove as much as it would in your bare hand. In order to have any effect on bow stability, you would probably have to grip the handle snugly, which might offset the benefit of having a heavier bow/glove.
Mass weight definitely works to your favor. When i shot muzzleloaders competitively i built a 29 caliber with a 38" 15/16" barrel that weighed 9 1/2 punds. This was my offhand rifle. Any mistake i made at the trigger was greatly minimized down range as the weight of the rifle kept it on target. I generally shoot very light weight r/d longbows, but now have them built w micarta risers for added mass weight and as you do i shoot w quiver. I have a black widow pchx that, compared to my other bows is very heavy and yup, it does seem to stay on target and hide my flaws.
Not saying you can't shoot accurately w light mass weight bows, but i find i need to be extra attentive to my shot--- which is a good habit to develop.
Quote from: Kokopelli on March 12, 2021, 01:44:49 PM
Sam;
Take this for what it's worth ............... I'm no expert but have been around the block a few times.
I think that when you add mass weight to your bow it requires a bit more use of the back muscles to hold the bow up and do the push / pull thing at full draw. Once your body gets used to the increased mass, the back muscles slack off a bit and groups open up.
Again, I'm no expert, but the more I shoot the more that I'm convinced a dropped bow arm or a bad release are just different ways of saying poor back tension.
Are you close to the North end of Los Angles ??? Conejo Valley Archers are putting on an awesome Trad Challenge in May.
Seems like as good a theory as any.
Depends what you mean by "close." I'm in the Central Valley so about 3 hours to LA. I've been learning more about 3D events and have been doing a local one for about 5+ years now with my kids. I only recently learned about others in the area. I joined a local range that, a year ago, I didn't even know existed. Met some great people, too.
Quote from: McDave on March 13, 2021, 11:15:41 AM
I'm convinced that additional bow weight helps my accuracy. I have bows that range in weight from a 1 1/2# Ron LaClair Shrew to a 3 1/2# Bob Lee Ultimate. While the weight of the Ultimate is certainly more noticeable in the field than the Shrew, it is not burdensome, and certainly a lot less than a compound bow or a rifle.
I also find that it is useful to switch between the light and heavy weight bows once in a while. After shooting a heavy weight bow for a while, I do have a feeling of loss of control when I pick up a light weight bow. But after shooting the light weight bow for a while, the feeling of control comes back, and I think my accuracy in general improves by the extra attention I have to pay when shooting the light weight bow.
I've never shot with a weighted glove, but fwiw, I don't think that would stabilize the bow like additional bow weight would. For one thing, the location of the weight makes a big difference. One ounce at the end of a long stabilizer makes a big difference, whereas one ounce in the handle does not. Second, we are encouraged to shoot with a light grip, and a light bow would rattle around in a weighted glove as much as it would in your bare hand. In order to have any effect on bow stability, you would probably have to grip the handle snugly, which might offset the benefit of having a heavier bow/glove.
Good thoughts about the glove. You're probably right about switching back/forth to light weight bows. The benefit of going heavier is quickly evident. But it probably also lets me get sloppy.
Sam;
The Conejo Valley Archers Trad Challenge, the first week-end in May is a great two day shoot. I drive all of the way across Arizona and part way up Calif. to make the shoot. It's a blast !!!
If you can make it, you can't miss me. I'm the old guy wearing a cowboy hat and carrying a lot of arrows. Holler & say 'Hi'.
Quote from: Kokopelli on March 15, 2021, 02:07:49 PM
Sam;
The Conejo Valley Archers Trad Challenge, the first week-end in May is a great two day shoot. I drive all of the way across Arizona and part way up Calif. to make the shoot. It's a blast !!!
If you can make it, you can't miss me. I'm the old guy wearing a cowboy hat and carrying a lot of arrows. Holler & say 'Hi'.
Off topic: I got excited when I read this because I was looking forward to a post-COVID lockdown event within driving distance. Then I went to the website and saw that they don't allow clickers. I shot for 45 years without one, but developed target panic a few years back and need one now. Seems kind of harsh to exclude old guys that have developed bad habits that they have not been able to correct.
On topic: I too have found that I shoot a heavier mass weighty bow better than a lighter bow. For me, it has to do with torquing the bow hand less.
Quote from: YosemiteSam on March 12, 2021, 01:11:18 PM
It was just like that old stabilizer but just off to the side instead of out front. It had me wondering if or how others may have already been using this to their advantage -- increasing bow mass to help make a more forgiving shot.
I totally agree. I think that is why I prefer a 3 piece take-down with a bolt on quiver attached (though I only attach the quiver during hunting seasons). John
Stinger;
You might try contacting them to see if you could shoot it as non-competitive or some such thing. You've got coin for entry fees ......... they want it. Seems like something could be worked out.
Following Kokopelli's comment, before the pandemic I usually would shoot a half dozen or so tournaments in CA every year. Each tournament had its own rules, but aside from the very basic rules, like having to shoot a trad bow in a trad tournament, you could shoot however you wanted to as long as you weren't submitting your score to be counted.
Defining a 'Trad' bow depends on where you are. In Calif. I can run a metal riser, short stabilizer and bow quiver. Here in Az. depending on what governing body shouts the loudest the stabilizer is verboten and the bow quiver allowed but only with a maximum of seven target arrows / no hip quiver if using a bow quiver. Clickers are evil but three fingers under are ok. 3d targets must never be more than 30 yards or the tears they cry for that shot are gonna flood you big river. I enjoy the competition, comradery, b.s. and the exchange of ideas but I tend to draw the line when target shooters are telling me how to set up my hunting bow to shoot 3d animals and just go out in the desert to shoot cow patties, dirt clods and exercise the JackRabbits.
I think that the clubs would do well to include some kind of 'Yeoman Bowman Non-Comp" class to attract shooters that just want to shoot and compare their scores to the big boys.
End of Rant and sorry for straying off topic so far.
Place I shoot has a non-competitive price and a shoot for score price. Non-comp gets a photocopy score sheet. I usually run the course twice non-comp. I don't show the competitors my card, or many would cry. Got tired on wood plaques.
I like to cant the bow and a heavy bow tries to pull my bow arm down which adds a tendency for collapsing or a high bow shoulder. I actually shoot my 1pc recurve w/ quiver on better than my metal riser bow with quiver and stabilizer, after a few sets it becomes more noticeable my bow shoulder was sore from the metal riser but still pushing strong with the 1pc bow.
Just for fun, this shows a comparison of the mass of a classic target recurve with a hunting recurve from the same period:
[attachment=1]
I would agree that a heavier riser adds to accurate shooting. But I don't like lugging around a heavy bow all day whether it's hunting or a shoot. My Bear Mag riser seems to be what works best for me, shooting wise and weight wise. I don't shoot competition usually so rules about bows and arrows don't apply. Lately the promoters are just happy to see trad guys show up. I would comment on the 30 yard Max guys but probably would get banned.