1. Do scent eliminating sprays and detergents actually work?
2. Are scent blocking hunting clothes worth the money?
(I realize nothing is as effective as staying down wind from game, but we all know that is not always possible.)
I think scent killer spray can help, along with some common sense. I keep all my hunting clothes and boots in a plastic tub in the back of my truck. I never wear any of them in my truck. Get to my hunting spot, get dressed, and upon returning throw everything back in plastic tub. Ticks are bad in my area so helps with them too. Wash my clothes with scent killer etc detergent once a week. I don't use scent lok clothing etc. Works well for me.
I think this is a subject that gets hashed and rehashed. Those who use and believe in it and those who don't will never agree.
I'm not much of a believer in either one. However, I still play around with scent killers, cover scents, etc. I have found that crushing fresh garlic on my boots to be as effective as any commercial products I have used. On a number of occasions deer have followed my exact track through the woods with noses to the ground not showing any signs of concern. On the down side yellow jackets seem to be attracted to the garlic. I've also had deer spook from it. I'm not sure if there is any decisive resolution to this issue. I have never used scent control clothes, as they are too expensive. Basically, if the wind is wrong, the deer is gonna smell you.
My opinion..nope and nope. If the wind is wrong I stay out of there. If the wind is ALMOST wrong, well, that's when I plan on killing the big one.
R
It's all about the wind you can't hide your smell from a deer's nose.
My take is, if a guy with scent eliminator can be tracked by a dog, then it doesn't do anything to hide you from wild animals.
Well, if it gives you more confidence, then by all means use it. The deer won't care one way or the other. :banghead:
If you are down wind a deer can and will smell you, no matter what you wear or cover up with. :readit:
I think scent killer and scent free clothes can definitely help. I mainly use the scent killer on my boots, and I have lots of deer walk across my trail without noticing. Nothing beats playing the wind though. Using scent killer and scent free clothes certainly doesn't hurt anything though.
I think both help to reduce odor but do not eliminate it. I spay down my boots, use Unscented laundry and personal soap, but that is about it. "Forget the wind, just hunt!" Is a big crock of dung.
I wash head and body with hunter soaps/scent free. Wash my hunting clothes in baking soda and/or scent eliminator and play the wind. Seems to cut down concentration of scent at least.
Deer can smell gaseous odor coming directly off you regardless out to at least a couple hundred yards downwind.
Deer don't just notice you when you are present. They notice when a person is using an area over time versus when there are no people using an area.
I use scent killer soap on me starting a couple weeks in advance. Also scent free antiperspirant. Clothes I wash in baking soda and line dry.. This cuts down on the amount of scent I leave in the woods, resulting in fewer deer routing around where I go.
I suspect a vegetarian diet would help greatly also but that's just crazy talk.
Obviously playing the wind is the most important thing.We all know that.
Wind does shift and change and swirl when on stand.So playing the wind is not always gonna be full proof.I think someone mentioned concentration of scent above.I think if you minimize scent you wont alarm a deer as much and cause it to immediatly go on red alert and runout of thier and maybe not have a snort/blow fest.Perhaps allowing you to get a shot that you would not if you stink more.Deer may remain more calm and or not as on high alert.
Does it work maybe, maybe not. But I don't see any reason it could hurt anything.
Here is my take on the issue. Go out on a cold winter day and watch your breath as you exhale. See that cloud of vapor? That cloud is comprised of water vapor from you lungs that has mixed in small quantities of protein from the mucous membranes in your lungs. That's the stuff scent is made of! All the scent killer spray, scent locking suits, etc. address is the scent coming off the exterior surface of your body, but they don't address the scent that is being expelled with each breath. You can only ignore the wind if you plan on not breathing for the time you plan on occupying your stand.
That's my take on it, for what its worth, which might not be much.
Stick a big one!
JMC
Quote from: Ryan Rothhaar on February 28, 2021, 09:05:59 PM
My opinion..nope and nope. If the wind is wrong I stay out of there. If the wind is ALMOST wrong, well, that's when I plan on killing the big one.
R
Agree
One of the things I learned since starting to use trail cameras a couple years ago was how much time deer spend smelling where you were. Anything you directly touch or brush against can get checked out. They don't get alarmed or run off. To my mind, they're constantly sensing levels of predator activity in their habitat as whatever passes for a stream of consciousness in a deer.
This makes sense to me in terms of how a dog hunts. People think of a dog as hot or cold nosed. This isn't true. A dog is hot or cold brained. A hot brained dog is smelling the old scent but isn't excited until they smell hot scent. A deer would be the same way, recognizing what scent means danger is near and what scent means danger was near. An area where danger was near often will be routed around or approached differently than one where danger has not been detected recently enough to be part of the dynamic catalog of information.
Further, older deer know how to move through an area based on regular air currents. They're not going by the forecast says NW. They're going by where they pick up scent and how the air flows through. Another way of putting it is a river might run west to east, but you have to stay in the river as it meanders to fish in it. Just going west to eat will put you out of the water much of the time.
Pre-game camera I related to this more simply as control scent, play wind and kill the buck as soon as you find it. Otherwise it will detect you and change the time or way it uses the area to avoid you.
I dunno. I agree with others who say our scent will out regardless. But, if total scent control were really possible, I wouldn't use it. Humans already have all sorts of advantages over critters. How many more do we need to kill one? I get more out of using woodsmanship than I do technology. YMMD.
When I go deer hunting, I just try to be as clean as I can be. I wash my clothes in baking soda and wash myself with no scent soap made for hunters. Ultimately, it's up to the deer to decide what works and what doesn't. They can smell you no matter what you do. They may frighten and bolt, they may get curious and come closer, or they may not even give a darn and just keep eating.
I agree w the breath thing. No spray addresses that. Biologists feel deer can smell dead skin cells fall off you. How are they not gonna smell your breath? Your sweaty hands or neck. So wash up, spray down and go hide in the yard. See if your hound finds you when he gets downwind. If he can't get a new hound. Deer have a stronger nose yet.
I hunt according to what the wind is doing, stopped the scent control years ago & take more deer & have more fun now. Give me a just off wind & we are in business. Mike
So I never knew biologists had learned to speak deer. Or dog. Or any animal language.
I doubt seriously they have a clue what animals actually smell or see.
A whole lot of deer die down wind of prepared bowhunters every season.
More deer die killed with mechanical broadheads than fixed broadheads.
Yes, hunting the wind is best. But I don't just hunt when I have a favorable wind. So I prepare for and follow a very detailed process to do that.
And I think my kill posts prove that system seems to work well for me.
My opinion no scent soaps and deodorants do help to a certain degree. But I ''smoke'' all my clothes. equipment and myself with a bee smoker. I have had mature deer directly down wind without a clue. I will not go back to sprays. Just my experience and opinion.
JMG, ZF
I just try to stay downwind. If I could be both invisible and scent-free then hunting would have no point, it would not be fair. So I just see getting smelled as part of it. I have zero problem with anyone who believes it all helps and uses whatever they feel is right for them. One of my best friends, who does stay super-clean, and does all the scent control that he can, used to rag me about just being too lazy to pay attention to all the scent control detail. Even though I admit he is mostly correct about me, my response was always the same - as soon as he started killing more than I do, I will listen to him about scent control. I was not bragging because I don't have anything to brag about . . really just couldn't resist ragging a buddy, but what I said is still true. . lol.
hunt the wind, always.
In ambush scenarios I minimise being in the area as much as I can, that is, don't go and check a camera too often.
Never hunt a stand unless the wind is right.
X2 with Ryan Rothhaar. Pay attention to the wind and thermal currents at all times. Sometimes you can fool a deer's eyes and ears, but you will never fool it's nose. :scared: :scared: :scared:
The phrase "can't fool a deer's nose" is vague and arbitrary.
This topic should be more defined as "is there anything that I can do to improve my situation?"
I'm a firm believer that any amount of odor reduction is better than not reducing any amount of odor.
I'm also a firm believer in learning wind patterns and hunting them to almost an anal degree.
I don't understand why they are often discussed as being mutually exclusive. Wind and odor reduction...they both work in tandem.
As for the breath argument...Bacteria is what causes the alarming odors that deer react to. If deer are reacting to breath, its because of our mouth, not our lungs. Mouth bacteria/odor can be addressed. How many of us know people that tend to have bad breath? That odor ain't coming from the lungs, it's coming from poor oral hygiene.
Something else that is seldom mentioned by the "can't fool a deer's nose" crowd is the distance that deer may detect our odor, or how soon residual odor dissipates.
Yep, we CAN improve our situation. Can it ever be 100%? I doubt it, but can it be 20% better with certain odor regimens? You bet.
Tom1958-- I'm with ya.
Another thing about the dog comparison that is seldom mentioned...
Conditions effect how well a dog detects odors, so saying dogs react in "X" way is also a bit vague.
You can take the same dog out on 2 different days, one moist humid day and the other a dry day. The dog will not detect scents as well on that dry day as well as the moist day. The point being is there are environmental factors that effect how strong or how long an odor lingers. It's not a "either-or" situation. It's a matter of degree. Minimizing our odor just moves it in our favor more so than not taking a few steps to address odor.
Deer also make decisions when they do encounter odor. What one deer may tolerate the next deer may not, and even that can change from day to day.
Last point... Which human odors exactly are the ones that alert deer? Arm pits don't smell like feet, don't smell like breath, don't smell like crotch, don't smell like ear wax. Each of these grow a different type of bacteria hence the reason they smell differently. We have no idea which of these odors are the ones that alarm deer. Some of these odors are easier to minimize than others.
It's fine if someone doesn't care to do the work to address odors. Nobody is saying it has to be done that way. But saying there is nothing that can be done about odors is not correct.
Hunt however makes you happy. What makes me unhappy is odor busts. I hate it. I've taken steps to fix that as much as I can and I know, without a doubt, that my hunting has improved due to it. I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing. Heck, I may even up my odor game even more. I just used a bee smoker for the 1st time this year. The jury is still out on that one.
I'll take my advice from guys like Leonard Lee Rue III.
The sense of smell among members of the deer family is legendary. In fact, it's hard for humans to grasp. But recent research into the sense of smell of elk and whitetails finally puts some numbers to it.
How far can a deer smell? They Can Smell You from a Half-Mile away. Researchers at Mississippi State University found that a deer's sense of smell, like a dog's, can be anywhere from 500 to 1,000 times more acute than a human's. Furthermore, scientists say that whitetails have thousands of sensitive receptors in their nostrils, which they use to sort out up to six smells at one time.
For more than 50 years Leonard Lee Rue III has observed, researched, photographed and written about deer. He has done more to educate the American public and hunters on the ways of the whitetail than anyone.
How do you defeat the whitetail's awesome nose? YOU CAN'T. You can only stay in the game by playing the wind and practicing good scent control on every hunt. You ought to spend as much time as possible on your hunting property year-round, working on the habitat, scouting and hunting. Every day you're out there, monitor the wind directions at morning, midday and afternoon. Mark the currents on a map or in a journal. Over time you'll see the common winds that accompany various weather patterns at different times of the year. That is vitally important info because the majority of the trees you pick for stands will be based on the prevailing winds in your area.
Most hunters focus on where deer will come in on the upwind side of stands. That is surely important, but it is not enough. When picking a tree, you need to determine where to put your wind, and hence your scent, so you'll alert as few deer as possible. If a mature buck circles in somewhere downwind of your stand and smells you, he might just melt away into the brush. But an ornery old doe might stand out there and blow like crazy, alerting every deer within a half-mile that she smells a rat. Either way your hunt is probably ruined.
Always try to set up and float your wind over an area that's not going to see a lot of deer traffic. For example, let your wind scent drift away from your stand and out into a pasture field, or maybe out over a deep creek that deer probably aren't going to cross. I sometimes set a stand slightly upwind of a steep hill or bluff that deer won't or can't walk up on the downwind side.
Determining the best wind for a stand definitely involves trial and error. You might look at a map or aerial and say, "Okay, a southeast wind will work best there." But until you go in and sit the stand several times, you don't really know if a southeast is best or even adequate. You have to study the unique topography of an area because ridges, bluffs, draws and other terrain features can dramatically affect wind direction. You also need to observe the overall deer movement throughout an area as it relates to various common winds.
Most hunters concentrate on wind direction, but they often neglect wind speed. Big mistake. I have treestands on the tops of ridges that are perfect for high-pressure mornings with little wind. I also have sets in draws and hollows that are just right for strong northwest winds that kick up after a front blows through. I've got a great stand on the edge of a small food plot down in a bottom where, if the wind is above 5 mph or so and stays that way throughout the afternoon, I'm OK. But if I try to hunt that stand on a dead-calm evening when the wind drops to nil at dusk, the cool thermals start shifting and falling, spreading my scent all over the bottom and messing me up big time. You've got to keep all that in mind to beat a buck's super sniffer.
Fortunately, we know a lot more than ever about how deer smell. Let's take a look at four things that give members of the deer family their amazing ability to smell what's around them.
A Long Snout
Members of the deer family and predators need their sense of smell to survive, so they are equipped with far more olfactory receptors than those animals that do not rely on their sense of smell. The long snout creates more room for special nerve cells that receive and interpret smells. It's estimated that humans have about 5 million of these olfactory receptors, while members of the deer family, including elk and moose, have about 300 million. Bloodhounds have about 220 million.
The Specialized Brain
The area of the brain dedicated to interpreting scent is larger in deer than in humans. The drawing of air across all those receptors in the snout sends signals to the primary olfactory cortex, which is in the temporal lobe of the brain.
Because this part of the brain is larger in animals that use their nose for survival, this creates an ability to interpret the smells that's added to their ability to pick up all those smells with those 300-million receptors. This would suggest that using a cover scent of any kind would be futile, because a deer can simply sort the smells out.
A hunter using deer urine to cover his scent smells like a hunter and deer urine to a deer, not just one or the other. While cover scents have little effectiveness, the ability to reduce (not necessarily eliminate) human scent with antibacterial soaps, detergents and sprays, anti-microbial Scent Killer, and carbon is proven science. The science of the deer's smell would suggest that reducing human odor is worth the trouble, attempting to cover it up is not.
Smelling in Stereo
Members of the deer family also have broader lateral nostrils which allow them to detect smells directionally. Moose have the most pronounced application of this. This allows the animals to determine the direction of the source of the smell more readily. This is called "stereo olfaction," and it allows members of the deer family to more quickly determine the source of danger.
You may have noticed a deer raise its head as it is smelling the air. The deer is flaring its nostrils while drawing air across the olfactory receptors in its snout. The animal can quickly determine what it's smelling and the direction it's coming from.
They Live by Their Nose
The fourth thing that helps members of the deer family survive is simply an increased awareness of the smells around them. We humans might not pay much attention to the scents coming in through our nose until it overpowers our other senses. We don't think about smells much; until someone hands you a child with a dirty diaper, or you walk into a restaurant where they are frying bacon.
Contrast that to the life of a deer, which is focused on the smells coming through the nose 24-7. The other four senses take a back seat to the importance of smell in their everyday lives. We humans can increase our awareness of the smells around us just by paying attention to them. Have you ever smelled a rutted up buck before you saw him? How about a herd of elk? Using our ability to smell what's around us is a skill that can be developed. After all, we are predators at heart.
Sure be as clean and scent free as you can, that's a no brainer. Every little bit helps. But the only way to really beat a deer's nose is religiously pay attention to wind direction, and thermal currents.
Ryan Rothhaar and kopfjaeger giving good sound and practical advice.
I think what a lot of folks miss in this conversation is just like any other discussion. The other factors involved that make a difference, small details, that are never discussed.
For example deer in low pressure situations are less spooked by human scent or sightings. We are at our place almost weekly. Brush hogging, working food plots, fence work.
The animals see and smell us regularly and most of the time we don't present danger to the deer.
I also will leave sweaty t shirts in my blinds and stands so animals smell that regularly and are more accustomed to it.
Scent control methods are about minimizing your scent signature and foot print. Not "fooling" a deer's nose. Your scent concentration and saturation in an area can be minimized with a good process and products.
Planning your hunt and stand based on wind characteristics is the best way but in most areas I hunt deer don't have one or two trails. They have a hundred and you can't always keep them down wind. So you have to use every tool in your tool belt to be successful.
And I eat a lot of bow killed venison and pork.
But don't go to town, in your hunting clothes, pump some gas, eat at the restaurant and buy some beer then spray some "scent killer" on those clothes and call that scent control because it doesn't work that way. You have to have a system and work it right or else your results will show the gaps in it.
Just like not observing thermals, swirls, pockets and eddies in the wind will kill your hunt as well.
I just build a fire beside my ground blind and when the buck smells the smoke, he comes over to see what's burning and I stick him:)
But those scent lock suits are an expensive gimmick.
Deer lure, doe in estrous?, how the heck does the person collecting all that piss know when the doe is in estrous and how they gonna collect it, follow the doe around with a bucket?
Staying as clean as possible, keeping your cloths as clean as possible will help.
But the bottom line is the wind.
Scentlock suits are a gimmick.
But you can't smell a doe or cow or sow and know they are in season?
I often smell animals upwind from me and rutting deer have a very pungent scent.
That said I don't use those scents. The most I use is real skunk scent and I've gotten to the point it isn't worth the effort either. Especially when the wind swirls.🤢
I believe the OP asked 2 specific questions:
1. Do scent eliminating sprays and detergents work.
2. Are scentblocking clothes worth the money.
My answer to those 2 questions still remain "no and no".
The question isn't about whether to take a shower or not before going into the woods, or whether to go roll in diesel fuel before going into a treestand, but about whether to depend on magic beans to "eliminate" or "lock up" your scent. The premise of companies that sell this stuff is "forget the wind and just hunt".
Sorry, nope.
R
I agree on number 2. Not to number one.
But like my original post on the thread said it is just a point of contention that will never be agreed upon.
I'm just really glad that I've taken the initiative over the decades to try things for myself.
When colleagues said something couldn't be done or a process improved I still looked for a way and even created some industry improvements and design changes besides accomplishing repairs in ways that saved time and money over the decades before me.
When I first heard about grunt calls my hunting buddies thought it was a joke. Until I grunted in and killed a couple of nice bucks with my bow.
Some things people can't make work for them. I cannot hit a golf ball for squat. I've tried. Took lessons. Just wasn't able to adjust my baseball swing to it. So I don't play golf.
But I do hunt. More importantly I kill. I'm good at it. Always have been.
First bottle of scent killer spray I bought I took off my sweat stained work T shirt after a hot Texas summer day. I hung it up and my wife and I laughed at how nasty it smelled. I drenched it with spray. Let it dry and then the sweat smell was gone. Still filthy but not stinky anymore. Even my wife was shocked.
I'm not a rich guy. I don't get any financial benefits for promotion of any business except my own.
But I like killing animals. I like killing them best with my bows. I kill several a year. Usually 20 to 30 between traditional and modern bows.
I won't disagree that hunting the right winds is ALWAYS the best way. But you can't bowhunt as much as I do and always have that right wind.
YMMV
Question...
If we are at the mercy of our odor and cannot do anything to reduce it, then why do successful coyote trappers take steps to minimize their odor?
Sprays...
They do have a shelf life and there are different formulas. So making blanket statements at to whether they "work" or not is ignoring details that may effect how well they perform.
I reject the mindset that something either "works" or it doesn't. It should be looked at as to whether it helps to any degree, or how we can best utilize a method or product. I doubt that we could spray a skunk and get 100% results, but what level of effectiveness will a product help a hunter that employs other odor reduction practices? It a cumulative effect.
And I still believe that no matter what we do, if a mature, highly pressured deer get a full nose, close range, whiff of us during optimum scenting conditions, that deer will detect us.
I'm more interested in reducing detection on those deer that are in the fringes of my scent cone. I firmly believe we can have a positive influence on the severity of odor busts on deer in those fringe areas.
Yeah, deer have a zillion olfactory receptors, but even deer have limitations to the extent of what they can detect. It's those deer out on those fringe areas that an odor reduction can minimize the intensity of odor busts.
Still...wind is our best ally, or worst enemy. Odor reduction is about deer out on the fringes when that ally becomes an enemy. I prefer to put every odd in my favor. Even if I can improve my odds by 10%, it can make a difference in whether I'm educating the herd to the fact that I'm trying to kill them.
2X Ryan Rothhaar again. :thumbsup:
""Deer lure, doe in estrous?, how the heck does the person collecting all that piss know when the doe is in estrous and how they gonna collect it, follow the doe around with a bucket?""44
Roy, how many does in estrous would it take collecting from to have hundreds of bottles of it in thousands of stores?
My buddy said : Lets buy a 12 pack and start our own brand of deer (beer)pee... :biglaugh:
I bought one bottle of it 40 years ago -- 0 results
Exactly........
MY opinion is play the wind.
Scent lok and play the wind . Been using it since it came out and it works or I am real good at playing the wind.