I'm fiddling with RD design wanting to come up with something a bit fore radical than my current design but I'm wondering if I went too far with this one??
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You can handle it Mike...
Have you got a full draw pic :goldtooth:
May want to move the deepest part of the deflex toward the tip a bit. You may be fine tho. I have found starting the reflex too soon can may make the limb floppy.
Too radical for stability? or too much for the planned materiels?
Cruise... Why don't you post a pic with the back of the bow pointing upwards, one with and without the lines... Lines could make it look different or distort the shape of the bow...I don't know about everyone else but I prefer with the tips facing upward when looking at a bow...
What do y'all prefer.??
Quote from: Crooked Stic on February 26, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
May want to move the deepest part of the deflex toward the tip a bit. You may be fine tho. I have found starting the reflex too soon can may make the limb floppy.
I was thinking that some thing. Needs a bit more fiddling.
Shreddy what's ya been sipping on?
The back of the bow is pointing up..
I don't think it's too radical, has a nice long reflex in it that will straighten right out....
Damn... Don't mess with me, Roy... Now I'm having flash backs... :laughing:
Not messing wif ya, just thought ya otta take another look...
Flash backs huh?
Not gonna go there:)
What Stic said may be something to consider... :dunno:
I personally come gently off the fades then go into a tighter radius... It don't make it right though... Just seems right to me... Always more than one way of skinning that cat...
I think she looks pretty good... Whats the angle at the fades and how long, ntn??
Roy, I must be losing some marbles... :laughing:
At what point does a RD become a recurve?
Once the string rides the belly glass at brace from what I understand.
Mike, looks pretty good to me, I like nocks around 2" ahead of back to give some preload...
Here ya go Shredd. No lines! :) About 12 degrees on that departure angle.
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Kenny, thanks for that input. The tips in this one are about 2.8". My current design is closer to two inch.
What do you think of Stic's comment?
How long is the bow??? At 12* you may be having a bow with the reflex look or straight limbs if it is a 64" bow... Could also be floppy... That's why it is important to answer "ALL" the questions If you really want to know what a person thinks of your design... :readit:
Roy, do your magic on that pic... :thumbsup:
Got a 60" like this.
Works pretty good.
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Quote from: B-JS on February 27, 2021, 04:16:25 PM
Got a 60" like this.
Works pretty good.
[attachment=1,msg2954228][attachment=2,msg2954228]
Thats pretty much what I'm going for.
Shredd, my thoughts were to start a conversation about those type considerations.
Looks a lot like B's above , his looks good at brace. How's she shoot B?
Cruise - Thats pretty much what I'm going for.
Shredd, my thoughts were to start a conversation about those type considerations.
10-4... I am not really familiar with that style bow but that's what I was guessing yours would look like with with 12* at the fades and 60" to 64"...
Quote from: Shredd on February 27, 2021, 06:35:40 PM
Cruise - Thats pretty much what I'm going for.
Shredd, my thoughts were to start a conversation about those type considerations.
10-4... I am not really familiar with that style bow but that's what I was guessing yours would look like with with 12* at the fades and 60" to 64"...
I'm looking for 60 to 62". I redid it so the pic below shows the old rendition on the right and a newer rendition on the left. The one on the left is more like B-JS design (thanks for putting that up). More of a uniform arc that extends 2.25" ahead of the handle which should allow tweaking via width, frontal profile and thickness taper to behave fairly uniformly along it;s length. That would be for starters with more tweaks later if they might prove to be beneficial.
I have an RD that is fairly mild and I'm looking to build something a bit more speedy that will have more preload. The mild design is certainly no dog but is quick and well mannered. This new one is looking to be a little quicker without being too ill mannered.
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I heard those reflexed R/D bows are supposed to be fast but did not ever see any speed numbers on them other than the wtt contest... And who knows whether those bows were just built for speed or to last and shoot well also... If not built right I heard they can be floppy...
If you measure along the curve how long is one limb from end of fadeout to string notch?
Quote from: Buemaker on February 28, 2021, 05:30:54 AM
If you measure along the curve how long is one limb from end of fadeout to string notch?
23.5 Inches. Which would make about a 64" bow. That is not the target however. The actual target would be for a 60" bow and will call for a small adjustment to the drawing.
You prolly need to go ahead and build one with not too much FT and let us know :bigsmyl:
If you want Fast, Bue makes a fast bow... You might want to pick that guy's brain...
Bue... Are you familiar with or have you made any of these R/D bows that are reflexed at brace?? What are your feelings and thoughts on them?? That question goes out to everyone else out there also...
Kenny makes a fast bow also... That last bow he posted looks good and has a decent bit of reflex in the limbs... Kenny did you shoot that one through the chrony?? What are the numbers??
I wanna learn from this thread that the Cruiser posted also... I always did like the look of the Shrew but that is a short bow and I can see how having those reflex limbs could be good for a bow that size...
My 54" is pretty reflexed at brace.
It's fast an efficient.
Don't have numbers (because i have no Shooting Mashine to make accurate measurements), but everybody, that has one is satisfied.
But the 60" with the serious preload is even faster.
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Is the bottom pic the 60"?
No. That's both two (LH and RH) 54" Strung and unstrung.
The 60" is the bow i posted before.
Here's the mod for a 60".
[attachment=1,msg2954399]
And for Shredd. :)
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
what is the purpose of the deflex with a glass bow? I understand the deflex in a R/D wood design is helpful to reduce stress, but that does not seem necessary with glass.
Build a bow without and you'll know.
One big issue in a design without deflex is handshock.
Many opinions on this, but you do not need the nocks to be way in front of back of handle in order to make a fast stable bow. I do not make these short RD bows with a lot of recurve at brace. They do not seem to be that fast. The one pictured is a 66 inch ntn with nocks in line with back of handle. Handle between fadeouts are 22 inches, limb lenght from tip of fades to nocks are 22 inches. Many say a 66 inch bow is too long to handle in the woods, but what the heck it is only three inches at both ends compared to a 60 inch. The last time I made this model shot trough a chrony from a shooting machine, 55 pound bow at 28 inch draw with a arrow 9,75 grain pr pound the speed was 192 feet. The one that shot 192 feet had a 3/4 inch shorter handle and the reverse taper a bit shorter at the tips. I will test this new one when I get it done. I do not hazzle with Carbon, wood and glass is good enough for me.
Very informative Bue. :thumbsup:
Bue how wide are your limbs at the fades and the nocks?? Do you have a side view of that bow unbraced?? I suspect your bow is shooting 188 to 189 fps @10gpp... I would like to get my r/d bow up to that speed... I seem to hit the wall at 184 to 186... You were talking about limb length... What are your feelings on that??
Shredd, here you go. Width at end of fadeout is 34mm/1,34» and a straight taper to 1/2» just before nocks. I like long risers and shorter limbs. This one have a 22» riser and 22» limbs.
Nice Bue and a longer riser with short limbs are faster than long limbs...
My old bear take down, the riser and limbs are pretty much the same length and it smokes arrows.
https://youtu.be/qRSUaiUwlQI
Quote from: Buemaker on March 01, 2021, 02:00:50 PM
Shredd, here you go. Width at end of fadeout is 34mm/1,34» and a straight taper to 1/2» just before nocks. I like long risers and shorter limbs. This one have a 22» riser and 22» limbs.
Bue
thanks for your observations about deflex.
Are the full draw and braced pics you posted yesterday in the "what did you do today" thread the same bow as the unbraced bow pic above?
Yes, the same bow.
I hope Longcruise doesn't mind a pic of a different sort of reflex, but I thought this might be a good thread to ask for opinions about what happens to stability if deflex is combined with a bow that carries most of the reflex nearer the tips?[attachment=1,msg2954555]
Thanks Bue... You Da Man... :thumbsup:
Quote from: williwaw on March 01, 2021, 05:53:50 PM
I hope Longcruise doesn't mind a pic of a different sort of reflex, but I thought this might be a good thread to ask for opinions about what happens to stability if deflex is combined with a bow that carries most of the reflex nearer the tips?[attachment=1,msg2954555]
I don't mind in the least.
My first rd design is very similar to that and there are no stability problems. I'll try to put a picture up later. I use stabilcore in it but probably don't need it.
Willi... I think I did a bow like that in one of my earlier designs... I don't remember having a stability problem...
Here's a picture.
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Thanks Long.
I suppose the stability problems come when the tips get too far ahead of the handle?
consider these two bows, both have the tips the same distance ahead of the handle and the same deflex The tip distance ahead of the handle is presumed excessive for sake of illustration
Is one more unstable than the other on account of the reflex placement along the limb?
I think that green thing will be very stable.
Hey Bue LOVE that longow!
I have shot many R&D bows and I find that the further the tips get from the back of the riser the more they magnify shooter error and are less accurate even though stable.
I think you can pick up speed getting the tips past the riser and with the right tapers not have an overly reflexed tip.
You have an exceptional design there with amazing speed yet accurate enough for everyday shooting, 3d work or hunting- Imho the hotrods are only good for one thing-Showing off at the Chrony! :laughing:
In terms of length I have hunted with a 68" bow for years under all conditions-No problem. If a mature whitetail can run at 40 mph through the woods and know the tolerance within an 1/8" I think my advanced brain can adjust too :biglaugh:
Bowyers always talk about their 58" bow that can draw to 30" without stacking-Great! But they never talk about string angle and accuracy :archer2:
What he said :thumbsup:
I got to put 2 cents in here. Just happen to have a 58 in. Longbow that will go 32 in. They look weird at full draw but string angle is good. And as accurate as the operator.
Quote from: Stagmitis on March 03, 2021, 09:07:28 AM
Hey Bue LOVE that longow!
I have shot many R&D bows and I find that the further the tips get from the back of the riser the more they magnify shooter error and are less accurate even though stable.
I think you can pick up speed getting the tips past the riser and with the right tapers not have an overly reflexed tip.
Edit: I misread Stags quote
What would be the goal of the purpose of "the right tapers"? putting the bend in the limb where it will yield the best speed for the given R/D? How does one best describe Bue's bend?
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Williwaw didnt leave that word out but I did these.."not have an overly reflexed tip AT BRACE..Which Bue commented on previously.
His design has a nice bend coming off the fades but there is enough stiffness there not to create a hinge- The limb in the outer third + remains stiff at full draw but not too stiff. There is a slight hint of reflex at brace that opens up a bit at full draw but not too much maintaing stiffness. The whole limb appears to bend nicely storing energy.
I would love to hear from others what they think.
Stagmitis have described very well how the limbs bend. On how to obtain that several things come of course into play, bowform, riser shape, riser lenght, limb lenght, limb shape and such. But what is easy to explain is taper rate. The limbs have a total forward taper of .003, but 8 inches before string notch the taper changes to a .004 reverse taper, kind of an integrated tip wedge. This in order to stiffen the tips a bit. Seen from the side the bowform is a true circle.The fade outs is going a bit into where the limbs gently starts to reflex.
Stag,
re reading this morning I see better your meaning, thanks for your observations and comments.
Bue,
Quote
The last time I made this model shot trough a chrony from a shooting machine, 55 pound bow at 28 inch draw with a arrow 9,75 grain pr pound the speed was 192 feet. The one that shot 192 feet had a 3/4 inch shorter handle and the reverse taper a bit shorter at the tips. I will test this new one when I get it done.
I look forward to the test results. Thanks for sharing.