Hello Tradgang :wavey:
I'm looking for a longbow that can meet specific criteria. I'll explain my circumstances, and I'm hoping you all can help me to narrow things down.
1.) I'm looking for a longbow design where the widest part of the limb (usually at the top of where the shelf is cut) is somewhere around 1" in width. My reason being my dominant eye looses its dominance at times when the limb is wider than 1 1/4 inch. This is due to my anchor (when shooting split) tends to be a bit on the low side and my eye lines up at that point of the limb. What really exposed this issue was I recently got an english longbow that is only a touch over 7/8 inch at the widest point and I had 0 instances of my none dominant eye taking over. I can cant the bow and it does help prevent the blurring/none dominant eye taking over, but I also enjoy shooting my bows vertically as well.
2.) Due to shoulder issues I need the bow design to be a light draw weight poundage and still be stable. Ideally a bow that can be made around 30-32 pounds @28 inches.
3.) Preferably a bow with some indexing but still a low or broken wrist style of grip.
I'm not really as concerned about bow length, I enjoy short longbows and longer longbows.
Feel free to mention any suggestions, thanks!
Leon Stewart, give him a call
Sounds like you'll have to have some sort of Hill style.
Try squinting your non dominent eye. Not closing it just squinting it, it will keep it from wanting to take over.
I used to have a Toelke Whip, which is one of the most popular designs Toelke has offered. It is a mild reflex/deflex longbow, and I remember how narrow the limbs were. I gave it to a friend, not because I didn't like it, but because I really wanted the friend to have it. I'm not sure the limbs are less than 1", but it is worth calling and finding out.
If he bought everybody's bow suggested he'd probably still have the same problem
I agree with Ron, better to figure out why you're having the issue and a way to prevent it. You can go through a lot of bows and never be satisfied. The bigger issue is you say it comes and goes. Makes it hard to pin point and can make any bow good or bad given the day you're shooting.
I wish you all the best of luck
Try a higher anchor point. I recently switched from middle finger to corner of mouth to my index finger on top of my cheekbone. Raised my anchor about an inch. I'm curious though if it's the limb in the way or your focus switching back and forth from target to arrow or bow?
Just checked the width of my Whip- it's 1.06" at the widest point, just above the riser. It has the narrowest limbs of any bow I have owned. They come with either a classic or high grip.
Have you tried "squinting" your non dominent eye yet?
Sometimes good advice is overlooked
an eye patch is cheaper than a new bow, plus u would look like like a pirate, the mrs might like it.
Quote from: Ron LaClair on February 17, 2021, 06:33:44 PM
Try squinting your non dominent eye. Not closing it just squinting it, it will keep it from wanting to take over.
Thank you for the suggestion Ron. I've tried this a few times before, but if feels very akward. I almost lose my sense of balance if I do much to my none dominant eye, even just squinting it. But I may try to revisit it, it's worth a try. Thanks again!
Quote from: Flingblade on February 17, 2021, 09:41:23 PM
Try a higher anchor point. I recently switched from middle finger to corner of mouth to my index finger on top of my cheekbone. Raised my anchor about an inch. I'm curious though if it's the limb in the way or your focus switching back and forth from target to arrow or bow?
Great suggestion. This last year I actually switched to 3 under and anchored at my cheekbone. It greatly reduced the occurences of my none dominant eye winning out for the shot itself. I like some aspects of shooting 3 under, one of which is actually utiilizing a site window. In 11 years of shooting a bow, I'd never used a sight window due to having a lower eye tooth index finger anchor. I actually may do a write up at one point on how much a sight window can really help with accuracy at some point. The reason I'm thinking of going back to split is it just feels more natural to me, especially being an instinctive shooter.
In order for me to shoot accurately 3 under the arrow has to be aligned in my peripheral vision. I rely on that alot more than when I shoot split (split I don't really notice the arrow at all). 3 under really works nice for target shooting and time when I have the luxury to settle into a shot. But on faster or moving targets where quicker reaction is needed, all the advantage I gain through 3 under seems to go out the window.
Having said that both styles are great, just different for me personally. What struck me about shooting the english longbow was that I shot it split finger and did'nt have the eye issue a single time. (Probably first session in my life where I can say that definitively). And the one thing that popped into my head was the width of the bow itself. The reason being I have had to return certain takedown bows due to the riser flaring out into my dominant eyes line of sight when shooting split in the past. So I've experienced the extremes of this issue (where the riser really is in my line of sight), the less extreme where it falls more in between and I have to cant to avoid, and with this english style bow I did'nt experience it at all.
Having said all that, I'm going to experiment more with the english longbow and see if the eye issue continues to be a none issue. I definately know that I am gripping the bow differently in order to get clean arrow flight (more toword the joint of my thumb, almost like carrying a suitcase). So perhaps the grip is positioning the bow in a different alignment that is not interfering with my dominant eye. I'll probably experiment with the wider bows I have and see if grip can make a difference as well.
Thanks a ton guys! You all are giving great advice and helping me to work through this to figure it out.
Quote from: stevem on February 17, 2021, 10:59:34 PM
Just checked the width of my Whip- it's 1.06" at the widest point, just above the riser. It has the narrowest limbs of any bow I have owned. They come with either a classic or high grip.
Nice, thank you for getting that measurement. The narrowest bow I have access to(aside from the English longbow) is a GN field bow that comes in a touch under 1 1/8 inch. The problem is it's right handed and I'm now left. But the whip sounds like it is in the ballpark of what I may be looking for after I experiment a bit more.
Quote from: DWT on February 18, 2021, 05:06:51 AM
an eye patch is cheaper than a new bow, plus u would look like like a pirate, the mrs might like it.
I love the idea, but I can't shoot well by obscuring my none dominant eye. The whole sight picture changes dramatically for me and my equilibrium gets thrown off. But I do like the idea of looking like a pirate though, so I'll have to take that into consideration. :biglaugh:
I want to thank all the guys that gave different bowyers and bow suggestions. I spoke briefly to a couple bowyers yesterday and once I figure this out for sure, I'll probably call more based on your all's suggesions.
Thanks again all, I appreciate the assist.
One last thing I'd like your thoughts on. After replying to the posts and thinking about it, could the arrow orientation also play a role? I typically shoot center shot to 1/8 off center bows. The arrow is running close to the center of the bow, in order for my brain to calculate the shot I'm assuming my dominant eye tries to line up as close to the arrow as possible. If the arrow runs through close to the center of the bow, then that leaves a portion of the limb to the side of the arrow(obviously above the actual arrow and to the side) that can interfere with my dominant eye.
On the english longbow style, the arrow is off the side of the bow. So in order to try to line up with the arrow under my eye there there is no limb material in the way of my dominant eye. Just a thought, it was just refreshing not to have any issues at all during a long shooting session. I shot for about 1 1/2 hours and my other eye didn't play a role at all.
Thanks again for the responses, it is really helping me to analyze and sort out something that has plagued me since I started shooting. When I started I was righty and left eye dominant, and it happened alot more then. It was like flipping the lense when you get an eye exam it was so bad when I shot righty. But it still came up from time to time shooting lefty and being left eye dominant, and I think we are close to figuring it out!
If you want to shoot a longbow that has no sight window, fine, many people love them, although I don't. Another alternative that might solve your problem with a potentially more accurate bow is to get a bow that has a big sight window cut into the riser, so that the overhang of the sight window is out of your vision. The extreme example of this would be an Olympic recurve, although you can find more traditional bows with long sight windows as well, such as a Black
Widow MA.
Have you tried the higher cheek bone anchor with split? I shoot split and switched to the higher anchor point not for eye or aiming issues but after watching a Tom Clum form video and realized my draw length was too short to really get into the back muscles properly. The cheekbone anchor allowed me to add about an inch to draw length getting the alignment right and into the back muscles better and is repeatable. Everyone's facial structure is different but it worked for me and the arrow is closer to the eye similar to shooting three under. I am right eye dominant and shoot right handed so I haven't had the issues you're dealing with but my wife is now learning to shoot both shotgun and bow and she is left eye dominant but shoots right handed so I am interested in learning what I can to help her. Her first coach told her to close her dominant left eye when she shoots. I personally don't like the idea of closing or squinting an eye during shooting but again it's not an issue I have to deal with. It seems when I draw and focus on the target anything in the way disappears. When I shoot at longer ranges where the arrow is held above the target the arrow becomes invisible right where the target is. I do question if closing or squinting is a strategy that is repeatable under stress though. Like when that 170" buck suddenly appears in your shooting lane. Best of luck with whatever you find to work and if that is a new bow then all the better!
Quote from: McDave on February 18, 2021, 10:49:43 AM
If you want to shoot a longbow that has no sight window, fine, many people love them, although I don't. Another alternative that might solve your problem with a potentially more accurate bow is to get a bow that has a big sight window cut into the riser, so that the overhang of the sight window is out of your vision. The extreme example of this would be an Olympic recurve, although you can find more traditional bows with long sight windows as well, such as a Black
Widow MA.
Great suggestion, I've never owned a bow with a sight window like that. That is something else I could consider, thank you.
Quote from: Flingblade on February 18, 2021, 12:04:22 PM
Have you tried the higher cheek bone anchor with split? I shoot split and switched to the higher anchor point not for eye or aiming issues but after watching a Tom Clum form video and realized my draw length was too short to really get into the back muscles properly. The cheekbone anchor allowed me to add about an inch to draw length getting the alignment right and into the back muscles better and is repeatable. Everyone's facial structure is different but it worked for me and the arrow is closer to the eye similar to shooting three under. I am right eye dominant and shoot right handed so I haven't had the issues you're dealing with but my wife is now learning to shoot both shotgun and bow and she is left eye dominant but shoots right handed so I am interested in learning what I can to help her. Her first coach told her to close her dominant left eye when she shoots. I personally don't like the idea of closing or squinting an eye during shooting but again it's not an issue I have to deal with. It seems when I draw and focus on the target anything in the way disappears. When I shoot at longer ranges where the arrow is held above the target the arrow becomes invisible right where the target is. I do question if closing or squinting is a strategy that is repeatable under stress though. Like when that 170" buck suddenly appears in your shooting lane. Best of luck with whatever you find to work and if that is a new bow then all the better!
I'll definately try what you suggested. I've done 3 under with a high anchor, but I've never done split with a higher anchor. I'll see if it is something I can make work. And thanks for the encouragement, its always fun to get a new bow. But I'm going to test things out more thoroughly before I commit. All the feedback and advice is helping my wheels turn and figure this out. Thanks a bunch :archer2:
It sounds like youmight be over squinting with your non dominate eye. It doesn't take much of a squht to weaken the non dominate eye and keep it from wanting to take over.
I'm left handedn and left eye dominate. Some years ago I had Tim Meigs maken me a double shelf bow. I started alternating shots, left and then right. I wore a centerback quiver, a shooting glove on each hand, arm guard on each arm.I would shoot left, step forward, drawn and shoot right hand. I had to squnt my dominate left eye "SIGHTLY" to keek if from trying to take over when shooting right hand. My goal was to become proficent enough to shoot a deer no mater which side it came in from.
Quote from: Ron LaClair on February 18, 2021, 03:00:15 PM
It sounds like youmight be over squinting with your non dominate eye. It doesn't take much of a squht to weaken the non dominate eye and keep it from wanting to take over.
I'm left handedn and left eye dominate. Some years ago I had Tim Meigs maken me a double shelf bow. I started alternating shots, left and then right. I wore a centerback quiver, a shooting glove on each hand, arm guard on each arm.I would shoot left, step forward, drawn and shoot right hand. I had to squnt my dominate left eye "SIGHTLY" to keek if from trying to take over when shooting right hand. My goal was to become proficent enough to shoot a deer no mater which side it came in from.
Thank you for sharing that Ron. It's nice to have guys here that have such a wealth of knowledge. The issue that I'm running into at the moment isn't so much with my none dominant eye taking over randomly. (Now a left hand shooter and left eye dominant too). My issue has been my dominant eye being blurred by the widest part of the limb while shooting vertically. So if I obscurred my none dominant eye slightly and my dominant eye is blurred by the widest part of the limb, I would'nt be able to see much anything. But I am happy to say, with everyone giving me input and feed back I've got it figured out.
The mystery has been solved. It turns out to be the arrow orientation off the side of the bow (instead of being center shot or close to) combined with the thinner limbs. (In this case 7/8 inch at it's widest). I focused today on looking around at full draw. I allowed my brain to take in what is going on, (meaning not focusing on aiming or shot sequence, just soaking in the visual at full draw) and my brain is naturally placing the arrow in line with my eye. This puts a bow that has no shelf to the left side of what I see as a left handed shooter. The limb is no longer in my field of vision even when drawing the bow vertically.
So now I'm left with still potentially looking for a more modern style bow that is not cut to center. But is 1/8 off center or more and has a very slim limb profile. Or a as suggested by Mcdave a bow with a longer sight window. I enjoy to some degree shooting the english longbow, but it is certainly has its challenges that are better left for another post. I'm also going to heed the advice to practice a higher anchor with split finger to continue shooting the bows that I own.
Thank you to everyone who contributed to this post. It has really helped me consider a variety of options and gave great advice to improve my shooting. Airing out what I had been struggling with for years helped a lot too. Thanks again guys :bigsmyl:
Most instinctive shooters that hunt don't shoot with their bow vertically. It works better if the bow is canted at least 45 degrees. That opens up your view (sight picture) to the target so the bow isn't blocking.
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Quote from: Ron LaClair on February 18, 2021, 06:56:05 PM
Most instinctive shooters that hunt don't shoot with their bow vertically. It works better if the bow is canted at least 45 degrees. That opens up your view (sight picture) to the target so the bow isn't blocking.
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I typically cant when I shoot. I also enjoy shooting vertically at times too. I have fun practicing and using the bow in different positions and held at different angles. This post was just focusing on an issue I solely have when holding the bow vertically and shooting. I apologize if I didn't clarify that in an earlier post. This blurred vision thing has nagged me for years when I held the bow vertically and it took an english longbow and the feedback here to sort out why it was happening.(It may have been much more obvious to others, I guess that is the advantage of receiving advice from a group of knowledgeable people) Thank you again Ron for your feedback and help, I do appreciate it.
As McDave said earlier---Toelke Whip. You won't find a smoother, quieter, and well made bow. Toelkes are the best bows on the planet.
Quote from: the rifleman on February 18, 2021, 07:19:13 PM
As McDave said earlier---Toelke Whip. You won't find a smoother, quieter, and well made bow. Toelkes are the best bows on the planet.
Thanks again for that limb profile is slim. I'll have to give them a call and see if they can make it in the poundage I'm looking for and if they can leave more wood on the sight window to bring the arrow more out of center. I'll also have to thin the herd a bit too, to make room for a bow like that. I was in touch with Maddog too, which is a more affordable price range. So many nice bows out there. But Toelke definitely ranks up there, it is one of the bows I've never owned or handled and I have heard nothing but high praise for them.
Glad you sorted it out before buying a bunch of bows. Not the getting new bows is bad, but if they didn't work for you, it could have been very frustrating
Quote from: Cyclic-Rivers on February 18, 2021, 09:14:27 PM
Glad you sorted it out before buying a bunch of bows. Not the getting new bows is bad, but if they didn't work for you, it could have been very frustrating
Thanks for your kind words. I agree with you, I'm going to take my time if I decide to make another investment. Or at least try to take my time...it isn't my strong suit at times. :goldtooth:
Not saying you are shooting with your off side eye, but this remands me of a friend that bought a right hand bow that was left eye dominant. He was getting into all kinds of trouble trying to aim. He hit our garage twice in four shots, completely missing the target. It is a big target. After some going round like guys do, he was checked to see about his dominant eye. We had an old scratched up pair of plastic bubble sunglasses, we popped out the right eye lens and had him shoot with those on. That helped him and stopped hitting the garage. Don't be afraid of the low price of the Maddog Prairie Predator, it is a very good bow.
Quote from: Lori on February 19, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
Not saying you are shooting with your off side eye, but this remands me of a friend that bought a right hand bow that was left eye dominant. He was getting into all kinds of trouble trying to aim. He hit our garage twice in four shots, completely missing the target. It is a big target. After some going round like guys do, he was checked to see about his dominant eye. We had an old scratched up pair of plastic bubble sunglasses, we popped out the right eye lens and had him shoot with those on. That helped him and stopped hitting the garage. Don't be afraid of the low price of the Maddog Prairie Predator, it is a very good bow.
What your describing reminds me of when I first started shooting. I shot right handed but was left eye dominant, and man did my eyes fight for dominance at times. Made it difficult to shoot with accuracy at times for sure.