What is the most durable wood for arrows? Cedar is probably the most fragile I'm thinking. Although I have had tapered Cedar take a beating.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
Hickory, ash, bamboo.
Sitka spruce is nice.
Have also had an Ash arrow found at a 3-D that I shot for two more years at 3-D, last 6 months with no fletch left, until it took a direct hit on a concrete culvert. I burned it with honors.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
Most durable and wood arrows aren't usually used in the same sentence. That said I have had cedars bounce off rocks and not break but a Maple shaft shattered when it hit a stump the wrong way. Right now I am trying some Aspen shafts from Forrester Arrows. Out of the 7 he sent me one has broken from slapping a rock breaking in the middle. The others have taken a beating (I like taking lo...ng shots) . For a shaft that is physically lite compared to ash or hickory so far so good. This set of shafts is basically a test kit as each shaft was a tad different in spine and weight.
I have cedar shafts that I bought for my Treadway bow in 1999. The first year I owned the bow I put over 10,000 shots through her and I still have most of those arrows today. I don't shoot that bow much anymore but the arrows are still good after many, many shots.
The most durable shafts I've ever had were some poplar shafts that Charlie Jefferson(stringstretcher, RIP) made for me. I don't think I ever broke one and Charlie asked me to try. I was his guinea pig for these shafts. I've had ash shafts that were very strong but I had a hard time keeping them straight.
Sitka spruce makes a pretty durable shaft as does lodgepole pine and most hardwood shafts, hickory especially.
I shoot cedar and feel it is less fragile than many say; however, I would not put it on the tough list. I have found hickory to be quite tough but heavy. Bamboo is also extremely tough. These are the only two I have used. Still, for general hunting and 3D, I prefer cedar. It gives all around good performance. Roving is sometimes hard on cedar, though. I do have a hankering to make some mahogany arrows.
I have shot all kinds of wood arrows, wood is wood, I like it no matter what kind. In all honesty I think I broke more carbon arrows stumping than wood. I had some laminated birch that were really tough!!
Back when Allegheny Mountain Arrow Woods was still in business, they had me sold on their ash arrows. Since then, I've been torture testing some cedars and have been pleasantly surprised. I also switched to 3Rivers wood screw point adapters, which allow me to use a variety of 5/16 screw in points. I don't think I will go back to carbon arrows any time soon.
I'm currently shooting Douglas Fir arrows, and feel that they're pretty tough. I don't think a carbon would have withstood the last thing that broke one of those. I also have a Doug Fir arrow back in the quiver that killed a deer a week ago. It's shooting great after a thorough inspection. :archer2:
Best regards, Chase
Reason for my question is that I have some Hickory arrows that are flying well. Grouping right with an AD nitro stinger, Warrior and AD Trad carbon arrow(s) that I also have to play with. 15-18 yards is maximum available distance in my back yard. Along side of house, not pointing at any neighbor fences, per spousal unit directions. At 875 grains the hickory should make a good hog arrow. Penetration on block target is very good!!! I also have some Red Balau shafts I'll be making up as well that should weigh @30 grains more.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
I am, and always have been, a cedar guy....
Aluminum bends.... Carbon breaks.... So does wood.
However, I have a 5 gallon bucket full of "survivors" from past dozens of arrows. Some dating back almost 20 years.
There's no rhyme nor reason, why some arrows break, yet others seem indestructible??
All I can think of, is that it's the natural structure and individual composition of the wood itself... :dunno:
I'm with Chase. The Douglas Fir arrows that I have are just as tuff as many carbons that I have tried.
The ash and hickory I've used have been really tough. Tougher that the cedar and tulip poplar - for head on shots into rocks as well as glancing blows. But they're heavy, unless you're shooting heavy bows - then it works out pretty well. I've never shot bamboo, Douglas Fir or some of the hardwoods listed at Forrester Shafts, so I cant comment or compare.
I did use 3 Rivers internal footing jig to foot some poplar shafts and get a higher FOC. they've held up really well.
X3 on Douglas Fir. I shot carbons for lots of years. Douglas fir is the only wood I've tried, they are tough as nails.
I have to believe the area we live in has something to do with how long a wood arrow lasts. I just flexed a Cedar shaft I had made up but never used. Maybe 8 years old. Well it cracked. I have to believe this Az. hot, dry climate sucks the moisture out of the woods. This wasn't the first experience with arrows I have fracturing for what seems no good reason. But I like woods so I will keep making them.
Just my experience, but no way is Douglas Fir as tough as carbon. Now that doesn't mean I don't like Douglas Fir because that is what I primarily shoot. It's a good compromise between the straightness of cedar and the toughness of ash.
If you want tough in a shaft of natural material, bamboo is the shaft!
As I said above... I'm a cedar guy!! :thumbsup:
However, I have a luxury that many don't... A son that just loves to sit and make arrows!!!
I buy the shafts, feathers, nocks, etc. and Tyler gets out the Jo-Jan multi-fletcher and goes to town, LOL
I actually have dozens of arrows, boxed up, that have never been shot. Boxes of "Hunting Arrows" with broadheads, waiting for hunting season. Back Quivers full, tipped with field points. A bucket full of "odds & ends" tipped with blunts and field points, for "stumping"......
Yup, Old Woodchucker's one lucky Indian :archer:
I have been shooting wood arrows for five or six years and still have about seven of the first one I made I also came across a tool called Arrow-fix made in Germany it's an awesome tool for repairing broken arrow it will pay for its self.
Michael, I had a set of ash shafts from Allegheny woods that I just loved. They stayed straight, with only minor tweaking. I have a set of hickories, that weigh in at 850 grains with 190 grain Grizzlies. I love shooting them. They're pretty close to bomb proof. I like heavy arrows, and my primary hunting bow is a Bob Lee at 66 pounds. It handles them fine for the ranges I'm willing to shoot.
Murray
Hardwood shafts(hickory, white oak, poplar) are pretty durable. But I hand plane my own and those take twice as long so I use white pine and they are not as durable but easier to make. Jawge
Thanks fellas, you have confirmed what I suspected. I'll hunt the Hickory and Red Balau with heavier 190 grain VPA and Grizzly Instinct on hogs. My physically lighter tapered Cedar will fly Snuffer 160 grain heads for Whitetail and Axis.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
Compressed Maples.... dare ya to prove me wrong.... with documentation. :goldtooth:
:campfire:
Were can I get compressed Maple in 90# spine?
Yeah John, they even survived Getzy shooting them through the steel back of the ball shed huh? More than once.
Really looking forward to doing a hog test on these Hickory.
:campfire:
Has anyone ever tried sourwood? The shoots grow straight with an almost spiral grain. Very tough with good weight also.
Quote from: Wudstix on December 01, 2020, 12:02:25 PM
Were can I get compressed Maple in 90# spine?
In my garage.
Hickory is very tough arrow wood but it's really heavy too. I have shot the heck out of Douglas Fir arrows and lost more than I ever broke. I shot one square into a brick wall once. The broadhead ferrule split but the shaft was reusable. The impact was so hard the feathers all turned backwards on the shaft, like if you took your hand and stroked them backwards. The shaft stayed straight. The only thing about Doug Fir is if you make your own arrows, you need a power sander and a jig to make nice clean point tapers. Other than that, I don't know how anyone can go wrong with them. :thumbsup:
Among the "common" arrow woods, I'd say Doug Fir. Haven't tried bamboo, but it sounds promising for toughness and reasonable weight... also sounds more expensive for labor and/or cost.
I'm sure the hardwoods would be very tough, but I'm already over 10gpp with fir, and I'm not comfortable with trajectory around 11 and more.
I lost/broke/ popped nocks on enough carbons to encourage me to go with woods and make up my own.
Terry,
Where are you getting compressed maple from? Homemade?
Red Balau for me, all the way. Tough as nails, heavy, straight and very durable.
Actually had 8 shots with the same Red Balau arrow this evening, got 4 rabbits and missed 4. The arrow is still perfect. Feathers are buggered though, but a re-fletch will fix that.
Although, another place a mate and I chase rabbits is a big limestone outcrop. Miss the rabbit there, and its a 90% + chance you'll bust an arrow. And it's not just my wood arrows that break there, he's busted plenty of his carbons there too. Vicious place on arrows. Fun place but, sure makes you consentrate.
Best
Lex
Lex,
Got some Red Balau just haven't made them up yet. They'll actually come in @25-30 grains heavier than Hickory. Traded for Hickory arrows and giving them a go.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
It's funny how the carbon arrow guys will tell you carbons are the best value because they are the most durable shaft. If you pay attention to all of the threads, there are many asking how to "foot" carbons so they dont split, which aluminum to use, what collars are needed, weight tubes to get the weight up etc. I have none of those problems with a wood shaft.
As Dan Quillian once told me, "Don't fall in love with your arrows, 'cause you ain't gonna have them that long". That is very true, for if you shoot as much as you should, you are going to break or lose a considerable number of them. So wood or carbon, you will be replacing them fairly often.
I've heard that, "If you ain't breaking arrows you ain't shooting".
:campfire:
I have probably broke a dozen and a half in the last 17 years of the brand I've been shooting.. Half broke stump shooting and animals broke the other half.
Luckily I stocked up on them before the quality tanked. I won't need anymore arrows the rest of my life .... least carbons anyway.
Great thread.... nice to see some wood talk.
Maybe Tedd Fry can chime in...
Actually nothing wrong with Douglas Fir either, it makes a great arrow shaft. I just cannot seem to find them any more in the high spines I need, hense going to the Red Balau. In my experience though, the Red Balau is definately more durable.
Best
Lex
I have some Sweetlands compressed arrows ( there not cedar) that are made in Alaska pretty tough but too heavy spine and too short for me .
Quote from: Wudstix on December 03, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
I've heard that, "If you ain't breaking arrows you ain't shooting".
:campfire:
And remember, arrows are supplies, not equipment ;)
Quote from: KentuckyWolf on December 02, 2020, 08:55:32 PM
Terry,
Where are you getting compressed maple from? Homemade?
So sorry for the delay ... Been covered up...
I have no idea where to get them now.... I had these for probably 15 years.... There were given to me Buy a member named Archery 7.
He was driving them Through a tapper tunnel or something. ... Toughest arrows I've ever touched.... I doubt anyone's doing that anymore.... I may get to my outbuilding tomorrow and if so I'll take a picture of one.
Quote from: NY Yankee on December 03, 2020, 08:36:56 AM
It's funny how the carbon arrow guys will tell you carbons are the best value because they are the most durable shaft. If you pay attention to all of the threads, there are many asking how to "foot" carbons so they dont split, which aluminum to use, what collars are needed, weight tubes to get the weight up etc. I have none of those problems with a wood shaft.
I will tell you for a fact that the brand of arrows that I shot for 17 years, that were carbons by the way.... Were way tougher than most wood shafts shafts by far. I didn't foot or put collars on them...
They came in it 585 grains with a long adapter in a Zwicky D4 blade. Most wood arrows did I use before were nowhere near this tough. Hickory and Compress Maples were the only shafts in the same league.
Quote from: jsweka on December 06, 2020, 08:46:42 PM
Quote from: Wudstix on December 03, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
I've heard that, "If you ain't breaking arrows you ain't shooting".
:campfire:
And remember, arrows are supplies, not equipment ;)
I think they are tools... to accomplish a task.
Sardines, Vienna sausages, and toilet paper are supplies. 😁
Figured they were older...and rare. Never got to try compressed wood arrows of any type. Shot PO cedar for years. Tried lots of other woods. Hickory was the toughest.
Personally
Shoot carbon for durability/toughness and wood for the feel.
Can't argue with either one of you about arrows don't seem to have them around enough, especially putting them through pigs.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
Quote from: trad_bowhunter1965 on December 01, 2020, 12:24:56 AM
I have been shooting wood arrows for five or six years and still have about seven of the first one I made I also came across a tool called Arrow-fix made in Germany it's an awesome tool for repairing broken arrow it will pay for its self.
Is this the tool?
GREAT thread guys.... :campfire:
I just lost an old friend this AM. It came up short at 50 yard target. Hit the cement base and bounced back. At first all looked ok until I flexed it . Then it came apart in 2 places. Oh well, I have another doz on the bench in the "makin" process.
While I have the floor, not necessarily a durability issue but what finish are you all using to keep target burn to a minimum? My last dozen or two I used waterbased Polycrillic. The bales are made from compressed carpet pieces. I have tried over the years, fletch Laq clear, Tru-oil, Gasket Laq, pure Tung oil, Polyethylene oil based and waterbased. About the only thing I haven't done is just wax them, no finish.
I use water based Polycrylic and perhaps a light waxing of the last 6-8" would be a good idea to try.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2:
Well Tom, now this is gonna sound silly.....
I had crap from the 3-D target, sticking to my wood arrows.
I used food grade silicone to clean it off. They didn't stick at all after that...?? :dunno:
I have used wood arrows exclusively for over 40 years and never had a single animal complain when that wood shaft went through them. 100% satisfied customers.
--Mike Dunnaway
Wild Horse Creek Bows
Quote from: BigErn on December 08, 2020, 10:35:26 PM
Quote from: trad_bowhunter1965 on December 01, 2020, 12:24:56 AM
I have been shooting wood arrows for five or six years and still have about seven of the first one I made I also came across a tool called Arrow-fix made in Germany it's an awesome tool for repairing broken arrow it will pay for its self.
Is this the tool?
Yes that is the tool.
I have used wood shafts for over 20 years, all types of wood. I have had a few break when stump shooting only after like a dozen or more shots. This last year I was curious and went down the "Carbon rabbit hole". I wanted to figure out what worked best, just in case needed to go into a shop if hunting somewhere and needed some more. I will admit that carbon shafts are straight and resilient, but to get the weight I want, will have to have extra components with me all the time. Wood to me is just easier to work with, and once got recipe down, I know I can order that spine and done. One other thing I have noticed about wood, is hunting, yes if the shaft stays in animal and they go down on it will break. But, I know that if it snaps that I can still eat the meat without worrying about pieces of carbon.
Any thoughts on Ramin wood shafts? I have access to a fair number, they seem heavy and shoot ok if you get them strait. I don't know if they are even available any longer. They don't seem to have any real grain orientation from what I can tell. Oh well they seem to shoot good and dead is dead.
I have shot Ramin with good results, straightening is the key.
:coffee: :campfire: :archer2: