Alright gang... I KNOW that this is a loaded question and
it's based upon opinion and experience. I've got my seatbelt on and I'm anxious to hear the replies. Thanks !
I think an intelligent answer will require a bit more thorough question. :dunno:
Pleas define "Smokin Fast". as fps/gpp
Some guys used to 150 fps may thing 165 is "Smokin"
To many variables. ( Ilf, 3 piece, 2 piece) I would try to go to kazoo or trad worlds and shoot as many as possible if I were you.
Big Jim sells a lot of Thunderchilds to some very experienced archers.
"Best" in what quality? Too broad to give one specific other than what guys have that they (still) like. :biglaugh:
I own and have owned a number of hybrids, for me, Toelke Whistler. As fast as about any of them, stable and forgiving, quiet as a mouse in church, and you can get a brand new one in about a month.
None of mine are being made any longer. Thunderstick MOAB and Big River D/R Longbow.
:campfire:
This is a very broad question..... Speed, calmness in hand at shot, length, etc. I like Black Widow PL's. I also like A&H 3 piece... Big Jim Thunder Child two simular bows and one radically different bow.... All long bows and Hybrids if you will....
Narrow your needs, thoughts and come back.... we will try and help
Simple answer is "the one that feels and shoots the best for you." Not being difficult, but a bow preference is a very individual thing. I've tried almost every bow that has been mentioned above...and some that probably will be mentioned later! :bigsmyl: I have pretty much settled on the Widow PL series bows, but I've shot and or owned Shrews, Javaman, Big Jim's, Toelke's, Pronghorns, Strikers and a bunch more and there ain't a cur in the bunch!
Ideally, you should try to attend a big shoot and try out as many as you can. Some of the bowyers have a "try before you buy program", OR you could do like a lot of us and buy what you think you like, then sell it for a loss and buy another one, then sell it for a loss and...you see where I'm going here? :laughing:
Good Luck!
Of course there will be at least 20 bests. ACS is pretty hard to beat. Likewise a Morrison Shawnee, though I don't know if the latter is made anymore.
Quote from: Crash on July 16, 2020, 06:12:40 PM
I own and have owned a number of hybrids, for me, Toelke Whistler. As fast as about any of them, stable and forgiving, quiet as a mouse in church, and you can get a brand new one in about a month.
X2^^^ and that locator grip is best in the business
Such a personal preference issue. I have owned or shot most of the most popular models. For me, I prefer the TallTines Stickflinger, although the new owner hasn't built one since march of this year, so I can't speak to that product yet. Very stable, but that is going to be the case with alot of 3 piece bows. Speed is good, but not so much that it isn't forgiving. Very quiet. Probably my favorite draw cycle, and then grip suits me very well. Honestly, at this point there hasn't been anything close as far as my preference goes. That being said, I have a primal tech that is almost finished, and have high Hope's for that.
very very subjective - Toelkes would be up on the list ! smokin fast is an ilf rig by any of the big names Morrison, Border and even Jim Belcher.
dont shoot the ilf much after my whip
I love Yellowstone Custom bows I have two of Rick's Half Breed the craftsmanship Rich put in to them is second to none, don't care about speed they are both shooter.
Trad Cat, are you tired of that brand new NM already? If so, just send it on over to me.
Guys, I think the open ended nature of this question is deliberate and actually well thought out. Each shooter defines "blazing speed", power, etc. for himself. By asking the question this way, it draws out many points of view, which causes the reader to look at some of these items in a context perhaps not previously considered. Sure, you have to connect the dots for yourself to develop an overall opinion, and not everyone will connect them the same. So, let's not question the question, but, rather, answer it as we individually interpret it. We will get a lot of interesting and varied view points. Unfortunately, I have no experience with hybrids, so all info distributed here will be educational to me.
For my needs a three piece works best. For ILF, hard to beat dryad acs limbs. I have the first Stickflinger made by the new owner. Very nice bow. 3 piece forward handle would be a hill country bobcat. A stalker coyote with longbow limbs is a solid bow and gets honorable mention.
I have shot others that were very nice but were one piece.
I can't tell you it's "best" because I've only shot one brand, namely Toelke Whips. But I like them a lot! They're smooth to draw, quiet, zero handshock, and will sniff 180 fps with a clean release, 9.5-10gpp arrow, and a 28"+ draw.
That said, I used to LOVE Toelke Whips, until I found out I shoot recurves better. At this point I'm pretty sure I will never LOVE a hybrid again. I'm too big a fan of my Toelke SS recurve now. Which is to say, the best bow for you now, may not be in a couple years.
Quote from: ESP on July 17, 2020, 11:58:40 AM
....... I have the first Stickflinger made by the new owner. Very nice bow. .......
Well, I won't believe you without pics, lol.
I'd like to see it as well.
No longer made but a certain individual out of Oregon made an awesome 3 piece R/D longbow. If you can find one.
The 62" Centaur Triple Carbon Elite w/XTL lamination and a Dark Matter riser section is my personal pic. See my review below:
The longbow expression and experience are unique and has captivated my genuine interest for the past five years. Have run numerous arrows thru numerous longbows over the past, yet still found myself composed enough to persevere in continuing with the quest of this personal endeavor. Personal expectations whether realistic or not have kept me at bay until just recently.
The following is my personal review as witnessed and experienced through my eyes after running ~1200 arrows thru her.
Note: Unless I can readily and visibly determine and/or experience the attributes, then I would soon omit them from any bow review. Attributes w/o personally experienced validation are of little consequence to me.
Bow Specs: 62" Triple Carbon Elite - T/D
Draw Wt. 50 @ 28 (Note: I draw ~27 ¾")
Riser: Dark Matter...Black Locust accents
Limbs: Carbon w/ Action bamboo and XTL Lamination Cores ...Black Locust Accents
Nock pt: 1/2"
Brace Ht: 7 7/8"
Arrow Specs: Victory HV 350 - 29.5"
Insert: 100 gn
Point: 200 gn
Tot. Wt.: 515 gn
Grip: The standard grip must be honing in my own personal best fit for repeatability and stability. She seats on the mark every time and is extremely stable at anchor thru shot conclusion. This particular grip design inherently provides superior bone on bone alignment per my personal body structure...... Will be leaning toward this grip design in the future. Note: Have shot her in 95 degree humid conditions and experienced no grip and/or hand slippage.
Riser: Robust, personally desirable and balanced mass. Beauty was not my objective where mass and stability were, yet she is quite appealing due to the craftsman's compelling influence. The Dark Matter, for me, is much more than just a complimentary addition. Mr. Neaves can easily accommodate those individuals interested much finer works of art.
Take Down Assembly: Robustly solid design with simple assembly. Would require an indicator to determine assembly repeatability since no movement was detected prior to bolting down.
Overall mass: The Dark Matter adds ~27% more mass, thus seems to be a most compelling addition. My propensity to bias heavier mass was quite satisfied. Mr. Neaves' incorporation of Dark Matter was a prime factor in finally procuring my own longbow with optimized confidence.
Hand shock: None perceived- An enhanced longbow experience. ** An epic- like luxurious ride
Sound: Emits a whisper so characteristic of favored longbows.
Draw: Effortless...Smooth...and Stable
Point ability: Have in the past perceived point ability as an neither and attribute nor a detractor until taking the Centaur jaunt. Being a ~3 second back tension/stabilization type archer prior to release archer, it is imperative that I acquire the target expeditiously. Acquiring the target promptly has historically remained my nemesis. Am assuming that the Centaur standard grip and bow balance are providing personally improved personal bone on bone alignment, thus reducing target acquisition by 1/3 and also reducing my stabilization time by ~1 second. This particular Centaur design significantly facilitates cursory acquisition of my desired window prior to actually bearing down on the mark. Striving further for improved shot execution appears well within my grasp.
Torsional Stability: Would not even mention torsional stability unless the benefits were readily perceived. Release appears to have significantly improved. Have attributed this observation to much less finger inflicted string deflection at anchor. String slips from fingers more uniform and is visibly apparent in more stable arrow flight. Side to side arrow marking variation appears to be reduced by ~1/4th. Bow string deflection appears much more stable than other longbows and hybrids of which I have had the pleasure to work with.
Tune Ability: Don't know... The aforementioned arrow specs are exactly what I started with and bare shaft tuned flawlessly with regards to spine at 30 yards. Simple nock adjustment was all that was required to achieve vertical alignment.
Shoot ability: Points naturally and consistently places arrows on the mark. Shooting her seems effortless,accommodating, forgiving and emits a highly desired most pleasurable experience.
Aesthetics – Simple, yet masterful beauty as I had ordered
Performance –Flat trajectory with velocity levels residing in the elite category yet maintaining spot-on accuracy.
Craftsmanship: Excellent – The gifted hand of the artisan is most noticeably evident and highlighted by the grip's stippling and turkey tracks. Having said that; the shoot- ability and exemplary performance may mask this splendid creation.
Service: Working with Mr. Jim Neaves has been a most pleasant and re-assuring experience. It was a honorable consolation to fathom that fulfilling my needs and expectations and especially keeping my own self on the proper path were obviously paramount. Mr. Neaves is both the consummate gentleman and bowyer.
Over-all Experience: Actually was leaning towards believing that my expectations were too lofty. Virtually all expectations were exceeded. No expectations faltered. Smoothness and unique stability promotes a relaxed anchor, thus decidedly enhancing focus thru conclusion. Her exemplary attributes have permitted me to fully experience the enchanted expression of a Centaur. The lengthy quest to procure a personally desired dream long bow has come to fruition.
I am looking quite forward to working, once again, with Mr. Neaves in the immediate future.
THANK YOU JIM!!!!!!!!!!
My experience is solely with one piece 60" longbows. Both shoot a 700 grain or better arrow at 185+ fps which is fine with me.
:campfire:
My experience with the Centaur Triple Carbon Elite Takedown is EXACTLY like Friend's.
Mine is a 62" bow that is 45 at 29 takedown with Dark Matter and burled myrtle accents.
I think so highly of my Centaur that I am on the build list for another. That way I will have two matching bows so I can travel to hunt with a backup just in cast my legendary clumsiness results in damage to my bow.
Jim Neaves builds a great bow.
Wish I got along with the centaurs. Lots of people love them, but what works for one doesn't work for the next. Owned 3 of them. You would have thought that I would have learned after the first two, lol.
Then again, this is why it is such a personal thing.
Thanks guys for your input. Hey Sam, I am not ready to give up on my Northern Mist Classic! I'm just looking for a hybrid that I can shoot out of a turkey blind
I've tried them all, Centaur has been my favorite ...Kanati is another that is a great bow, especially if you consider the price compared to a lot of the others.
I shot one of my buddies Centaur Triple Carbon bow last Saturday and was completely blown away. It was about 5-7 lbs lighter in draw weight than what I normally shoot and it was extremely fast but the real surprise was just how accurate it was! I mean EXTREMELY accurate!!! The other eye opener was how great the grip felt with the finger grooves. I would strongly consider one of these bows but I don't want the year long wait for one. I know that great bows are worth the long wait too ! Got to think on it some more. I have also considered a Big Jims Thunderchild or a Shrew bow. Too many great bows to choose from
I'd say ACS is at the top of my list, with the Toelkes and centaurs close seconds.
Gotta say my Habu has all the attributes I ever want in a bow...best grip I've ever experienced, perfect physical weight for a steady shot, especially with the bow quiver and arrows...a very fast bow...and the cocobolo and bacote are stunning. The one downside is that I'm afraid to scratch it up in the woods during hunting season, so I bring my Toelke Lynx...another fine bow.
Might as well ask which girl is the prettiest. Everyone has their own definition of "best!"
Well......I did love my Kanati. I only sold it because I had to move down in draw weight.
Quote from: JohnV on July 22, 2020, 09:53:51 AM
Might as well ask which girl is the prettiest. Everyone has their own definition of "best!"
Pretty much
more like which girl is the most popular !
beauty as someone already said is in the eyes of the beholder
Wild Horse Creek bows has some really nice hybrid longbows.