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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Wudstix on July 03, 2020, 09:34:50 PM

Title: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 03, 2020, 09:34:50 PM
Hardwood arrows 29" spined 95/100# 265 grains up front, bow 66#+ D/R longbow.  Arrows are tailing up and left, but hit close to point of aim although slightly left.  This means stiff right? 
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Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: caleb7mm on July 03, 2020, 11:58:44 PM
Raise your knock height a little and try it again. Might be able to tune that out
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Silent footed on July 04, 2020, 05:58:23 AM
Wud are you a lefty? Seems to me if you're a righty who cants his bow, a tail up and left would mean weak spine. Think about it, if it were the opposite, the arrow would not be flexing around the riser properly causing it to impact tail down and right because your shelf is cut left of center.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Silent footed on July 04, 2020, 05:59:29 AM
I would trim your shaft a hair if you are happy with your point weight and don't want to go lighter.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Crooked Stic on July 04, 2020, 06:25:49 AM
Bare shaft nock left right handed shooter is weak.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 04, 2020, 08:49:54 AM
These shafts/arrows were given to me four fletch parabolic 5/16" diameter.   I'll take 75 grain woodie weight off one and see what my mileage is.  Shooting right handed.
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Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: The Whittler on July 04, 2020, 08:48:56 PM
2nd CS or a false weak.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: slowbowjoe on July 04, 2020, 10:44:07 PM
"Bare shaft nock left right handed shooter is weak."
X2.
'Cept, for me, could also be false weak. Hearing the arrow strike the side plate at all? Any fishtail visible in flight?
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 05, 2020, 08:53:01 AM
Wood is pretty quiet, but do see fletch kicking a bit.
:campfire:
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Silent footed on July 06, 2020, 04:27:54 AM
If you can do so without losing or breaking arrows, then taking a few 50 yard shots will likely allow you to see a full fishtail/tailwhip and you'll know you're weak then for sure. But I'm pretty sure you're weak.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 06, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Plan to back down point weight and report back.
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Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 06, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
Ok, taking the 75 grain woodie weight off helped, now I think it's the particular arrow that is causing the problem.  Even with good focused form it flies a bit off.  I'll try other arrows from the bunch and am confident that will resolve the issue. 
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Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on July 07, 2020, 12:40:04 PM
Quote from: caleb7mm on July 03, 2020, 11:58:44 PM
Raise your knock height a little and try it again. Might be able to tune that out
Ditto I like a stiff spine arrow not to much. 
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wheels2 on July 08, 2020, 07:43:10 AM
After a long time trying different methods, I now just shoot bare shafts that I have added tape wraps to compensate for fletching weight.  I start with my intended point weight and shaft a bit long.  Tweaking strike plate thickness and arrow length is used for adjustments.  If shooting carbons, I found that even 1/4" makes a difference.  Aluminum and woods, not nearly as critical for shaft length.
The down side is that bare shafts will show all of your poor shooting issues.  If I grab the handle or pluck the string, it immediately shows with bare shafts.  But it teaches me to be a better shooter.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 08, 2020, 09:37:20 AM
These arrows were given to me cut to length.  I am playing with point weight to see what happens and will probably be stumping arrows or hog arrows, as most shots would be 10 yards or less.  Taking off the woodie weight helped and can drop to 160 grains if needed.  The Maple arrows are shorter and like the WW added.  Probably pick up 6 shafts 85/90 and rat tail tapered.

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Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Tajue17 on July 08, 2020, 03:15:40 PM
do the nock last first raise the brace height to get the spine in check and see what the arrows do,,,,, the string nock is easy but make sure you have a straight elbow and even pressure on those fingers ... 

knocking 15gr off the front would help too....     at 20yds you shouldn't see anything cept the color of the nock..   
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 09, 2020, 09:39:59 AM
If taking the 75 grain WW off does not fix, I'll drop to 160 grain Snuffer weight heads.
:campfire:
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 09, 2020, 10:01:25 PM
Strangely adjusting string silencers 2" from 12" to 1/4 of string length from nocks has helped a bunch!  Arrow flight has improved and noise is a solid thump.  Grouping has tightened.
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Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Silent footed on July 10, 2020, 09:38:45 PM
I have done that. The closer silencers are to the nock, the longer the distance they must travel to rest, and the more time for drag to accumulate to reduce speed, which amounts to less force on the arrow to flex the the shaft, correcting the weakness in dynamic spine.

Slightly slower arrows and a MUCH quieter bow.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 10, 2020, 09:53:53 PM
Are you talking arrow nock or NTN string groove?  They seem fast because they are not tailing left. These arrows should be @10# over-spined.
:campfire:
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: MnFn on July 12, 2020, 10:04:28 AM
About ten years ago I went through stretch where my arrows were showing weak like yours. I moved up to about  to around 80#+ out of a 55# bow and they shot ok, granted at 15 yards or so.

After hunting season, I quit shooting for a few months.  When I started up again those arrows were tailing off to the left at twenty + yards.  I ended up shooting 65/70 out of that bow.

I am convinced originally I was getting false weak results because of something in my form.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 12, 2020, 12:10:10 PM
Strange these should be too stiff.  I'll back down point weight and concentrate on release.  85-90# should be right.  These are 95-100#.  Might even go to 160 grain Snuffer weight with these hardwood arrows.
:campfire:
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 12, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Ok, with good form and follow through there is a slight nock wiggle up, but arrow burrows right on the spot.  Would dropping point weight 30 grains help?  Or shortening arrow a smidgen?
:campfire:
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Silent footed on July 13, 2020, 04:30:35 AM
I meant nocking point/arrow nock. It sounds like that fixed it if they're not tailing though.

As for the slightly slower speed, I can't tell the difference unless I am shooting from 40 yds or so, where I can notice the arrows dropping more than expected. I wouldn't worry about it. Just be consistent.

The effect of silencer position on spine is real, however. Especially when using a bow matched to shafts that are right on the border of being too weak. Often moving the silencers to the string nocks will indicate you got a batch on the low side. With some batches it makes enough of a difference that I always pull out a bow square out at the truck and check my silencers right after checking my brace height.

Actually, each year when satisfied with setup/tuning, I even record silencer position right along with my brace height, arrow length, string length, point weight, and point-on distance.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Silent footed on July 13, 2020, 04:33:05 AM
I mean, in my mind, if I'm going to go through all that work to tune, I might as well remember it. Then there's the problem with getting silencers snagged on brush while hunting and needing to measure to place them back.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 13, 2020, 02:16:46 PM
Took the 190 grain tip off and tried 160 grain on these 29 1/2" 5/16 95-100# Leopard wood arrows 4x4" banana.  Bingo.  When I focus on release and follow through it disappears in the soft center.  Total weight just a smidge under 750 grains.  Guess I'll have to use Snuffers with this group.  Plan to get a couple dozen 85/90 Tapered Cedars and Red Balau Rat Tail tapered for my VPA and Grizzly Instinct 190 grains.
:campfire:
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 14, 2020, 11:29:57 PM
One final tweak, put PC at 1/4 from top and 1/3 from bottom, this seems to work best from this Big River D/R longbow 60" 66.5# bow.  Shooting in the dark helps with focusing on the sound, arrow flight is as good as it has been.  Think I'm done!!!
:coffee: :campfire: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Silent footed on July 15, 2020, 04:40:52 AM
Awesome! I may give shooting in the dark a try myself.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 15, 2020, 09:40:48 AM
I leave the side door to garage open so there is some light on the target, then step back into dark along the house 10/12/15 yards.  The privacy fence and house make a good test tunnel.
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Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 15, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Seems to be tuned.  4 arrow group at 13 yards.  Red nock of arrow number four tucked high right.
Title: Re: Arrows spined stiff or not?
Post by: Wudstix on July 17, 2020, 09:54:34 PM
Tried L/6 and L/10, with "L" being length of string from touch points on each end.  Shooting 2315 @92.1# spine and 2219 @93.5# getting good arrow flight and a decent tick up in arrow speed over 1/3-3/4 silencer placement.  Noise is equal or less.  Think this is the spine weight I need to be shooting.  95/100# Leopard wood shooting off (poor flight) and low. 
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