I normally shoot three fletch arrows. However, I have been looking at trying a 4 fletch (4x3") in the 75x105 fletch on my Bitz jig. These will be feathers, not vanes.
Has anyone tried or shot this setup off the shelf ? If so what are your findings ?
Thanks in advance
Used to shoot 75x105 with 4" feathers from my wheel bow, with 105 down and did not notice much difference from three fletch. But I was a young guy not really worried about much but arrows hitting the target.
:campfire:
This is how I fletch some of my arrows and have noticed more stable flight and less feather wear versus 3 fletch.
I used the 75x105 for several years and found they flew the same as, or better then three fletched arrows. When I went back to cresting my arrows I went to three fletch because I like the looks better.
I currently shoot 75x105 4-fletch on my arrows. I have some with 2" feathers, and some with 3" feathers. They both work great.
Bisch
Why would you use that spacing with a trad bow? I do 4 fletch, but evenly spaced.
Quote from: BAK on March 17, 2020, 09:32:48 AM
Why would you use that spacing with a trad bow? I do 4 fletch, but evenly spaced.
Just playing around. Thought I might see how something totally different might work.
I currently shoot 75x105 4" 4-fletch on my arrows and it works great.
I was previously running trad vanes at 75 x 105, but I'm now working up some 4x90. From what I understand the 4x90 is superior in wind compared to 75 x 105.
Quote from: BAK on March 17, 2020, 09:32:48 AM
Why would you use that spacing with a trad bow? I do 4 fletch, but evenly spaced.
Because I have 2 jojan multifletchers and that is the only way I can do 4-fletch with the nock receivers I have. Jojan is no longer in business, so getting 6 or 12 4x90 nock receivers is nearly impossible!!!!!
Edit: I stand corrected!!!!! Thanks to this thread, I got to digging, and I just found some on Ebay, and bought them! Now I will fletch up some 4x90 and see which I like better!!!!
Bisch
We are predicted to have a bunch of rain for the next two days starting tomorrow ( Wednesday) so I am going to go to the shop and fletch up 2 or three shafts and see what happens. I dont have any 4" stuff so I am going to do some "customizing" on some feathers I have.
I may try some 4 at 90 also.
More to come.
Have used 4" 4 fletch 75/105 for approx. 38 years. Occassionally will try 3 fletch, and can't see a difference. When I need more arrows will try 3" 4 fletch 75/105.
If this is derailing the thread I apologize, but can anyone explain to me what these numbers mean? How do you determine spacing, I just bought my first fletcher so this is very timely.
Quote from: BearBandit on March 18, 2020, 07:43:59 PM
If this is derailing the thread I apologize, but can anyone explain to me what these numbers mean? How do you determine spacing, I just bought my first fletcher so this is very timely.
4x90 = 4 feathers, each 90* apart
75x105 = 2 sets of 2 feathers that are 75* apart, then there is 105* between each of those sets
Bisch
Ok that makes sense, why would you use an uneven spacing like that? Shelf clearance?
Quote from: BearBandit on March 18, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Ok that makes sense, why would you use an uneven spacing like that? Shelf clearance?
Idk where it originated from, only that it is an option that is out there.
Bisch
Thanks Bisch, I find it interesting, might even give it a shot if the fletcher I bought supports it. After i figure out how to even glue on my first feather lol.
Sorry for the tangent.
It has to do with clearance.... Just another viable option.
Google four fletch for arrows....
Will do sir, thanks again for all your help
Quote from: Bisch on March 18, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Quote from: BearBandit on March 18, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Ok that makes sense, why would you use an uneven spacing like that? Shelf clearance?
Idk where it originated from, only that it is an option that is out there.
Bisch
It originated from the fact that you can four fletch with a three fletch jig.
do two "HEN" feathers and turn the nock 180 and do the same two "HEN" feathers in the same stops.
But why the extra 5 degrees :dunno:
:laughing: Just found out it was originally setup that way for more cable clearance on a compound.
Back when they had two wheels and a cable guard.
Yea, but here it is from "Kelly" as per Roger Rothaaer, who was a trad shooter:
"The 60/120 degree 4 fletch alignment is done during fletching with the three fletch jig. Install two-hen feather and two cock feathers. The following instructions are for right-handed shooters. If you are left-handed, you will do the opposite for the hen feather position, only. First, put on the cock feather. Then rotate the nock indicator of your jig to the left (counter-clockwise) and install a hen feather. This is where if, you are left-handed, you will need to rotate the nock indicator of your jig right (clockwise). Now remove shaft from jig, rotate 180 degrees and return to jig. Put on another feather. Finally, turn the nock indicator back to the cock feather position and install another feather. Wholla!"
Lets remember we now have (Blitzenburger) jig which will set up for 75x105 four fletch as well as doing the method above also.
Holy macaroni I have a lot to learn... and i look forward to it :goldtooth:
Pine, I shot 75/105 way before compounds and several of my friends did the same
Is 75x105 two feathers close together at the top,and two close together at the bottom? That's what mine is set up for,and I like them,get great flight.
CORRECTION TO ABOVE: I was running 60/120* just like Mr. Rothaar, I believe. 75/105* makes some sense to me. Might try some on my 3-D set this year.
:coffee: :campfire:
So do you run straight, offset or helical Clamp? I shot a 4 fletcher arrow at RMSG a couple years back, but did not inquire about the arrow..... just the bow I was running them through!
Quote from: goingoldskool on March 20, 2020, 11:20:21 AM
So do you run straight, offset or helical Clamp? I shot a 4 fletcher arrow at RMSG a couple years back, but did not inquire about the arrow..... just the bow I was running them through!
goingoldskool:I asked the same question and was told to use just a bit of off set. Seems like a helical clamp would be enough with out adding more off set on a Bitz jig.
Quote from: Alexander Traditional on March 19, 2020, 10:58:34 AM
Is 75x105 two feathers close together at the top,and two close together at the bottom? That's what mine is set up for,and I like them,get great flight.
Alexander Traditional:Yes... that's what I have on my Bitz jig.
I like using 4 X 90. Everyone's mileage will vary.
Quote from: Huntschool on March 20, 2020, 12:34:45 PM
Quote from: Alexander Traditional on March 19, 2020, 10:58:34 AM
Is 75x105 two feathers close together at the top,and two close together at the bottom? That's what mine is set up for,and I like them,get great flight.
Alexander Traditional:
Yes... that's what I have on my Bitz jig.
Ok mine is a Bitz also. I really like this set up myself. I don't have to look at the nock or feather orientation,and they fly really good. That's good to know I need to write it down somewhere :biglaugh:
For those of you using four fletch, which ever configuration, what size and shape fletching are you using ?
This is getting very interesting......
I'm thinking I could go from 5" to 4" fletching and gain feather to control broad head flight.
:dunno:
Quote from: Wudstix on March 20, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
I'm thinking I could go from 5" to 4" fletching and gain feather to control broad head flight.
:dunno:
Wudstix:You may be surprised that going 4/4" or 4/3" will work for the BH and believe it or not give you more velocity. I worked out a cople of arrows (carbon) on Stu Millers calc and the speed went up....
Would probably work on tapered woodies, as well. But right now all my choppers are for 5". I'm happy with quiet arrows and good flight. Moving from 160 grain BH to 200-250 BH. Quiet Kills Not Speed!
:coffee: :archer2: :campfire: :thumbsup: :wavey: [size=78%] [/size]
Quote from: Huntschool on March 20, 2020, 01:22:26 PM
For those of you using four fletch, which ever configuration, what size and shape fletching are you using ?
This is getting very interesting......
I have shafts with 4-2" and some with 4-3". I like the 2" best, but I compete in some IBO shoots, and they have a rule that you must have 12" of fletching, so that is why I have the 4-3" arrows.
Bisch
Quote from: Bisch on March 20, 2020, 02:45:48 PM
I have shafts with 4-2" and some with 4-3". I like the 2" best, but I compete in some IBO shoots, and they have a rule that you must have 12" of fletching, so that is why I have the 4-3" arrows.
Bisch:I am looking at the same thing "IBO" rules. However, with the right arrow I can see the 2" as being deadly indoors.
Quote from: Wudstix on March 20, 2020, 02:31:18 PM
Would probably work on tapered woodies, as well. But right now all my choppers are for 5". I'm happy with quiet arrows and good flight. Moving from 160 grain BH to 200-250 BH. Quiet Kills Not Speed!
Wudstix:Don't want to start a big discussion but, the arrows/fletching pattern in question for me are for 3D IBO shoots. I will look at them for broad head use after I have shot them a good bit.
Speed on a well tuned and FOC'ed arrow works well for me up here in Yankee land on our deer which are in general bigger then yours down in the valley. We don't have hogs here at home but on my numerous forays down into Brooks, Kenedy and Kleberg and Willacy County's has not deterred me from speed and sharp BH's.
Just sayin....
No worries, I just shoot what I'm used to and pick my arrows up on the other side. Even went end to end on a 150# boar once, chalk that up to luck.
:bigsmyl:
Dad had a couple theories on the 60x120 spacing you described from Kelly's website. One was that either way you put it on the string it is like shooting 3 fletch cock feather in, and that gives you quicker recovery from paradox due to the "parachute" type effect of hen feathers out. Additionally, with 3 bladed heads (Snuffers of course😁) and 4 feathers you can rotate them in your quiver to get better fletching clearance in the bowquiver without poking new holes in the foam. He always shot big feathers, and I agree, I'll take the faster recovery that big feathers give over a few fps any day for hunting with big broadheads.
I don't know for sure when he started using 60x120, but I have a picture on the wall of the big Ohio non-typical he killed in 1974 and the arrow he killed it with is on the wall under it, and its fletched 60x120.
R
Quote from: Ryan Rothhaar on March 20, 2020, 04:26:50 PM
Dad had a couple theories on the 60x120 spacing you described from Kelly's website. One was that either way you put it on the string it is like shooting 3 fletch cock feather in, and that gives you quicker recovery from paradox due to the "parachute" type effect of hen feathers out.
I don't know for sure when he started using 60x120, but I have a picture on the wall of the big Ohio non-typical he killed in 1974 and the arrow he killed it with is on the wall under it, and its fletched 60x120.
R
Ryan Rothhaar:Thanks so much for your post. Your Dad was one of a kind.
Just to be clear about the speed thing, Stu's calculator shows 3x5" feathers at 205.1 fps and 4x3" at 205.9 on the arrows I am looking at for 3D only. As to hunting BH's, which was not the intent of this thread, I personally shoot 135 gr two blade double bevel so I don't consider them big by any means compared what some folks are shooting today. I have always used 3x5" on hunting arrows, although, I now may give some kind of a four fletch a try.
Again, thanks for your post.
It's all about fletching clearance with the shelf.
[attachment=2,msg2912131]
This is your standard 4-90 degree fletch. The hen feather at 4:30 will hit the shelf while going through paradox kicking the tail portion of your arrow upwards, thus making you raise your nock point to overcome this tail kick.
[attachment=1,msg2912131]
This is 60/120 four fletch done with your 3-120 degree three fletch. Notice there is no feather striking the shelf and the 3:00 feather acts just like cock feather in which when going thru paradox does not strike the side plate/sight window, effectively allowing one to shoot with the lowest possible nock point. Easily ones nock point should be 1/4" to 1/2" lower than 90 degree 4 fletch and even more with 75/105 four fletch.
75/105 four fletch was developed for shooting off an elevated rest.
Thanks for the visuals Kelly. I like that you don't have to pay attention when knocking your arrow I think I'm going to give one of these a try.
Just picked up some 4 fletch and in the pic it looks like the nocks are on at different angles. I'll see when they get here and I can do some experimenting. The journey continues.
:coffee: :campfire:
Great thread! I've learned a lot reading through it just now. I think I'll try some 4 fletch 60x120. I have an old JoJan multi fletcher so I think I can do it with the 3 fletch nock indexer. Ryan Rothhaar- what length feather did your dad use for his 60x120? Were they 4" or 5"?
Dad always used full length feathers that he burned. 5-5 1/2 inch high profile parabolic. I have his old burner and the wire on it is set up to about 5 1/4. He just eyeballed them, doubt he ever measured a feather, just set up the burner to what looked good and let er rip.
R
I am going to start playing around with using corner tips of feathers touching my nose for a anchor spot, may have to try the four feather as an option.
FWIW, I have shot 4 fletch (both orientations) with 3" or 4" feathers for at least 20 years and don't see a reason to change. I really like the fact that the arrow can be nocked either way so that I don't have to look at it ever....just grab it and nock it. I have moved toward 3" feathers as the bows have become higher performance and more tunable and I think the next step is 4x90x2". I'm sure it will be fine too. I do like how 4 fletch with smaller lower profile feathers fly in a crosswind compared to higher profile 3 fletch. Just my $0.02
Matt
4-2" feathers is the best setup I have tried yet!!!!!
Bisch
[quote author=Bisch link=topic=171607.msg2912720#msg2912720 date=1585102275]
4-2" feathers is the best setup I have tried yet!!!!!
Bisch[/quote]
Bisch:
Is that with broad heads..... If so, what kind and weight, if you dont mind sharing.
Thanks
I understand the need for tinkering... I just don't have the time or desire. I like to concentrate on the target...animal and have yet to find that my fletching has an effect on my accuracy.
Some times i'm not accurate.. I get that, but I realize that it is me and not my fletching. I have never thought "if I had only been shooting **** fletching, I would have made that shot" I guess that is just me.
I get my set up as good as I can with a quick tune and then may make adjustments a little at a time over whatever time it takes. I try not to rush as with anything, the more data you add to an investment, the better you will be able to get a medium.
I know, everyone knows exactly what their draw length is and they shoot the same every time.. I must be the exception.
BigJim
Bisch, Jojan is still in business just went to their website.
Big Jim:
I agree completely.... However, now that I have all this retirement time I thought I would mess around with stuff I never tried before. Just me and I understand and agree with your comment.
Quote from: rainman on March 25, 2020, 03:06:43 AM
Bisch, Jojan is still in business just went to their website.
Well, kiss my grits!!!! I read a while back that they went out of business. I love my multifletchers, so am glad to see this!!!!
Bisch
Quote from: Huntschool on March 24, 2020, 11:42:53 PM
[quote author=Bisch link=topic=171607.msg2912720#msg2912720 date=1585102275]
4-2" feathers is the best setup I have tried yet!!!!!
Bisch
Bisch:Is that with broad heads..... If so, what kind and weight, if you dont mind sharing.
Thanks
[/quote]
Yes, with broadheads! I shoot German Kinetic standard (1 1/8" wide), GK XL (1.5" wide), and Carbon Express Piledriver (1.5" wide), all in 150gr weight.
Bisch
I've been converting to 4-fletch the past couple of years, mostly just to make more use out of full length feathers. Was a time a person could get two 5-inch fletches out of a full length feather. Not anymore. Lucky to get two 4-inch fletches. That's what I've been using -- four, 4-inch. Could probably get by with less feather length, but I just don't like the look of stubby feathers. Instead, I chop or burn mine a little less high-- about 1/2 inch as opposed to 9/16 or higher, which is fairly standard on commercial fletching.
Regarding the supposed advantage of being able to nock the arrow either way. No reason you can't do that with a three-fletch just as easily. If you start with cock feather out, a lot of folks get even better arrow flight with cock feather in. I did and still do it without any affect on accuracy. I don't find my 4-fletch to be any more or less easy to tune or any more or less accurate than three fletch. Fletching is pretty much just a personal preference. :archer:
Quote from: Orion on March 25, 2020, 03:06:54 PM
Fletching is pretty much just a personal preference. :archer:
Ditto
Is four fletch going to work on a skinny arrow? Mine aren't micro but in between they are .204
Quote from: BearBandit on March 25, 2020, 05:56:30 PM
Is four fletch going to work on a skinny arrow? Mine aren't micro but in between they are .204
My Widowmakers are .165. It works just fine!!!!! FMJ's are .204. I have a buddy who has 4-fletched them with 2" feathers, and it worked just fine also.
Bisch
Thanks Bisch, now I just have to figure out how to use my new fletcher hahaha
Very stable with 4-4" feathers. Like the 75-105 with a broadhead.
I have four fletched 4@90 4 inch feathers for years and will continue. Arrow is more stable, more universal with other bows and the older I get the better I see the flight of the arrow, one of the TRUE pleasures of shooting traditional.
I was shooting this afternoon with the 2" 4-fletch. I was shooting 3 arrow groups with one broadhead and 2 field points. I was shooting sitting in a chair from 16yds. I have a pic of a typical group. It shows there is no problems with using the 2" fletching!
[attachment=1,msg2913985]
Bisch
What you shooting there Bisch? 120x60. I think I figured out how to do it on my tower jig just waiting on missing parts to show up.
75x105
I just recently got some new nock receivers for my jig, so the next ones will be 4x90, and we will see if there is any perceivable difference.
Bisch
I shoot 4x90 2.5" on my beman's and they shoot great. Never have to worry about knocking the arrow the wrong way :biglaugh: