Going to try my hand at a forward handle ASL. Looking for stack suggestions. Shooting for 50 - 53 lbs at 28". 66" bow length. Plan to reflex the limbs 2 - 3". Let me know your thoughts
Have you made a standard handle ASL? Just like that, but backwards :) Poundage is kind of dependent on wood choice, glass thickness, taper rate, width, etc. Thats a lot of reflex for an ASL. Ball park, .500 give or take .030? You probably won't know until you make one for a baseline.
How long will the riser be?
How wide at the fades?
How wide at the nocks.
What will be the total thickness taper?
18" riser. 1 3/8" at the fades. 1/2" tips. .005 taper. Wasn't planning on tip Wedges. The only asl's I have built have been Bingham's. I am open to all suggestions. My only have to is a recurve style medium wrist grip. I just can't shoot the straight handle well at all.
ASL,.500" at center limb like stated. 18" riser is very long usually about 14-16" - 1" to -1/8" limbs and 7/16" tips at notches. Research ASL websites and Dick Wrightmans old pages at Howard Hill Longbowman.
It is all subjective to experience and what you want to do.
Quote from: pditto613 on February 18, 2020, 03:20:33 AM
18" riser. 1 3/8" at the fades. 1/2" tips. .005 taper. Wasn't planning on tip Wedges. The only asl's I have built have been Bingham's. I am open to all suggestions. My only have to is a recurve style medium wrist grip. I just can't shoot the straight handle well at all.
My swag at that would be 43 to 47
This thread is catching my interest I would like to make one to down the line !
Since I am not looking to re-invent the longbow I am going to rephrase the question. If you were going to build an forward handle asl reflexed longbow at 50-53 lbs how would you go about it? I believe there are a few of you out there who have done this quite well.
If your lucky, canopyboy or jsweka will chime in. As I recall they have both posted reverse handle ASL's they have made.
This may help, but looks like pbucket got part of it....
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=153078.msg2648847#msg2648847
Thanks for posting that Kenny! Thats a great reference. Now I'm wondering where David Lowe went to?
Thanks Kenny. Definitely different from the Bingham version. Shorter riser, narrower and faster taper rate. Starting to see why the stack numbers were so different from my guess.
Quote from: Flem on February 18, 2020, 06:43:26 PM
If your lucky, canopyboy or jsweka will chime in. As I recall they have both posted reverse handle ASL's they have made.
I haven't been on much lately and just saw this.
Here's how I build one:
16" riser
0.050 glass
0.005 total taper to the lams
1 1/8" width at the fadeouts, maintain this width 14" out each limb, then tapering down to 1/2" at the string grooves
My form is perfectly straight and I end up with about 1/2" of string follow after it's been braced for the first time.
If your form was straight and you wanted a 66" bow that pulled 50 - 53# at 28", I'd suggest a total stack thickness of 0.500". If you want it reflexed, I can't provide much advice because it will really depend on how much reflex.
(http://i.imgur.com/wpgwO9Q.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/wpgwO9Q)
John, do you use an asymmetrical riser?
No. Everything is the same on both ends. I let the bow tell me which limb wants to be the top limb when I first get a string on it.
That's what I was looking for. Thanks and nice bow
Canopyboy, aka Dave made this for me.
[attachment=1,msg2908724]
Spent last two days building my form and grinding lams. Had everything laid out to start the dry run and realized I don't have a firehose long enough to glue up a 68" bow. Nice bow Roy
I'm sure someone here can help solve that dilemma. Post up a picture of what you are using for a form.
Big Jim is going to solve it when I order more fire hose
Noob question. Is there an advantage to doing a forward handle or is it more a matter of preference?
Puts your bow hand closer to the center line of the bow. Makes it a little more forgiving of left/right issues. Like the ones cause from my inconsistent release. Some personal preference is in there too.
90% of my bows are forward handle both D/R & recurve never shot a FH ,ASL but to me they torque less on release like said , they seem to me to give me a feel of being part of the bow they seem to be more of a natural pointer & shock free at release it's hard to explain but there is defently a different feel to them I'm sand bagging this thread Im defiantly going to make a FH,ASL at some point !
Forward handle seems like an inaccurate description. They should be called Back-Handed, or maybe Digital grippers.
I thought they looked goofy for the longest time. Like you strung a bow backwards.
But overtime they grew on me, so I had to build one. I'm back on a regular riser ASL kick for the time being, but I know I'll go back to the reverse handle at some point.
Something I wonder about is the loss of power stroke with an ASL. Even though it may have a poundage equal to the (rearward handle???) ASL, the power stroke will be reduced 1.5" to 2".
Mike, could you elaborate on the power stroke. I'm clueless, but curious.
Think of a typical "Hill style" ASL. The grip is 1.5" to 2" deep with the limbs on a plane with the back of the bow. With the forward handle, the plane of the limbs is at the belly. So, given a two inch deep "Hill style" grip, compared to a forward handle, the forward handle limbs are being drawn two inches less.
So, this next may or may not be tested but here's what I'm thinkin.
Given bows of each style that have equal draw weights when drawn by the same archer to the same anchor point, the H style will pe propelling the arrow through a power stroke that is two inches longer. Both bows accelerate the arrow continuously from departure from anchor point to the nock leaving the string. The forward handle will be accelerating the arrow two inches less and therefore with less speed (efficiency).
Could be stinkin thinkin but interesting to think about and discuss.
Mike I went threw the same dilema as you with these FH but then I figured out no mater what bow I shoot my inside draw is always 29" + rise/handle depth 29" + 1 1/2" = 31 1/2" so the limbs are alwas moving 29" inside draw for the same giving draw weight thats all speculation on my part sense I don't want to build 2 test bows but I dont think there would be much performance difference other then shooting quality's !
Good observation Mike. I could not wrap my head around what you were saying. Went to bed thinking about it. Fortunately I do my best thinking when I'm asleep.
So like Ritchie said, you would have to increase the length of your arrows to compensate for the depth of the back-handle, otherwise you would come up short on your draw, equal to the handle depth. That creates another couple of issues to address. I guessing you would have to use a different spined arrow to compensate for increased length and fulcrum point.
Yeah, there's a number of adaptations that come to mind. I too think in my sleep and it came to me last night that the relationship between brace height and the plane of the limbs should also come into play.
I'm at the point of drawing pictures. Not for the benefit of Bench readers, but to try to figure out my own thoughts. :dunno:
Probably comes across like I'm some kind of speed freak or performance nut, but when the season opens I'm usually carrying a pokey ASL with heavy arrows that would hit with more authority out of a Samick Sage! :biglaugh:
"I'm at the point of drawing pictures. Not for the benefit of Bench readers, but to try to figure out my own thoughts. "
Thats funny! When I got up this morning, I had to go into my shop a grab a bow backwards to visualize what you were talking about :knothead: