I am curious if you guys who have swapped from split to 3u have noticed a difference in bow noise. This is after an adjustment to nocking point to ensure their is no contact between.
How are you combating it?
What have you done that had the greatest results?
I've noticed bows tillered for split are louder when shooting 3-under without any changes. I shoot an ILF bow so it is easy to set the tiller to even, tune to find best brace/nock height before adding string silencers. You can also put limbsavers on the limbs, but my primary hunting limbs don't have them as it is quiet enough just using thin felt/calf hair where the string contacts the limbs (for recurve).
I helped my brother in law with this same problem on his takedown recurve over the weekend since he just switched to 3-under. Just playing with brace/nock height and adding string silencers made it much quieter. If those options don't work you could try heavier string or arrow. Good luck.
I have had no noise problems shooting a split-tiller bow with a three-under style -- BUT, it is important to re-tune a bit in terms of nock height and brace height.
I have found, for example, that my nock height moves from 1/2" to 3/4" and my brace height might move up to a half inch in either direction.
I think it is best to assume that these two things will need to be double-checked for the best performance and silence since I do not own any bows that are tillered for three-under.
My two cents worth on the subject.
Nocking point may change... no noise issues here though. Now that I've been shooting 3 under for years and my form is pretty well set all my custom bows are ordered tillered for 3 u.
If your bow is tillered for split, just put an elevated rest about an inch above the arrow shelf.
That will keep the same pull on the limbs and it will shoot great.
An arrow rest less than an inch will be a big improvement. It depends on the bow if you want to jump up a full inch, it can put the arrow a bit far from the bows pivot point. If three under is used to sight down the arrow, shooting split with a DAS sight works as well.
It's simple Turkey feather rest oughta put you right on the money.
I played around with 3U for a bit with my Sage takedown and noticed an increase in noise. I didn't adapt well to 3U and went back to split.
If you are shooting a takedown, you can change the tiller with the limb screws.
Quote from: Pine on October 17, 2019, 01:14:18 PM
If your bow is tillered for split, just put an elevated rest about an inch above the arrow shelf.
That will keep the same pull on the limbs and it will shoot great.
I have never tried one of these. I have considered it though! Which one would you recommend?
Quote from: DanielB89 on October 17, 2019, 03:12:32 PM
Quote from: Pine on October 17, 2019, 01:14:18 PM
If your bow is tillered for split, just put an elevated rest about an inch above the arrow shelf.
That will keep the same pull on the limbs and it will shoot great.
I have never tried one of these. I have considered it though! Which one would you recommend?
Bear Weatherest always gets good reviews. :thumbsup:
Another thing that makes a big difference IMO, is to make sure that a minimal amount of the weight is held by the ring finger. It should just kind of "go along for the ride"
Every bow I have ever tried to shoot 3-under has been louder than split. Don't know if it's enough to bother the critters, but it was certainly enough to bother me!!!
Bisch
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: Bisch on October 17, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Every bow I have ever tried to shoot 3-under has been louder than split. Don't know if it's enough to bother the critters, but it was certainly enough to bother me!!!
Bisch
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I feel like this is one of the great myths of trad bow. No offense intended Bisch I love your posts.
When you buy a trad bow and it set up for a style of shooting say split you choose the optimum brace height and nock height and tune the bow and then the arrows. Then for some reason people grow a wild hair and just randomly shoot three under and of course its louder. Your bow ain't set up! I shoot three under but dont advocate one way or the other. But it bothers the crud out of me when people say its louder to shoot three under. Half of my bows are tillered for split so that's 4 of 8. However all 8 are setup for three under shooting and have never encountered a quieter setup when visiting the local range. I honestly cant believe how loud the bows I hear there are. Heres the truth if your bow is setup for three under shooting it will shoot quieter than split. If your bow is setup for split it will likely be quieter than three under with no changes. I don't have a decibal reader and have no concrete way of measuring. However, noise varies bow to bow, by release, type of arrow, and setup all come into play. I have a bow for instance that is tillered for split and setup for three under. My friend not 15 feet away around the bend of my house cannot tell it has been shot until the arrow impacts the target. Its the quietest bow I have and is significantly louder when properly setup for split. The second quietest I own is a three under tillered for three under.
All in all I do not mean to rant but of course if you take a car setup for drag racing it will not perform well on a rally course. I am soooooo tired of split community as a whole trashing three under on noise when they typically wont change anything but their fingers. I switched from split to battle a non dominant eye issue. My nocking point changed by less than 1/4 depending on the bow and I have never had a noise issue. Three under tiller is an "equal" tiller and overall seems to be quieter in my experience.
Rant over.
I did notice a difference with 3 under, and it was even louder when I experimented with a fixed crawl.
However, moving the string silencer (on stressed limb) a bit closer to nock took care of the noise (assuming a setup already tuned for split).
Alternatively, using a heavier arrow took care of the noise too.
The trade off to either approach was a minor loss in speed.
The post about the tiller nails it. My god. Don't buy a new bow though. Just shoot three under.
Split or 3 under, I have only ever had animals jump the string when already fully alert and suspecting my presence, but as ethical bowhunters, we avoid those shots.
I just take out my hearing aids ! I have shot 3 under since the 60s and have never noticed any extra noise maybe im just not paying attention .
If you pull more with the index finger and much less with the ring finger, three under creates less havoc with the limb timing.
Quote from: dahyer on October 17, 2019, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: Bisch on October 17, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Every bow I have ever tried to shoot 3-under has been louder than split. Don't know if it's enough to bother the critters, but it was certainly enough to bother me!!!
Bisch
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I feel like this is one of the great myths of trad bow. No offense intended Bisch I love your posts.
When you buy a trad bow and it set up for a style of shooting say split you choose the optimum brace height and nock height and tune the bow and then the arrows. Then for some reason people grow a wild hair and just randomly shoot three under and of course its louder. Your bow ain't set up! I shoot three under but dont advocate one way or the other. But it bothers the crud out of me when people say its louder to shoot three under. Half of my bows are tillered for split so that's 4 of 8. However all 8 are setup for three under shooting and have never encountered a quieter setup when visiting the local range. I honestly cant believe how loud the bows I hear there are. Heres the truth if your bow is setup for three under shooting it will shoot quieter than split. If your bow is setup for split it will likely be quieter than three under with no changes. I don't have a decibal reader and have no concrete way of measuring. However, noise varies bow to bow, by release, type of arrow, and setup all come into play. I have a bow for instance that is tillered for split and setup for three under. My friend not 15 feet away around the bend of my house cannot tell it has been shot until the arrow impacts the target. Its the quietest bow I have and is significantly louder when properly setup for split. The second quietest I own is a three under tillered for three under.
All in all I do not mean to rant but of course if you take a car setup for drag racing it will not perform well on a rally course. I am soooooo tired of split community as a whole trashing three under on noise when they typically wont change anything but their fingers. I switched from split to battle a non dominant eye issue. My nocking point changed by less than 1/4 depending on the bow and I have never had a noise issue. Three under tiller is an "equal" tiller and overall seems to be quieter in my experience.
Rant over.
You are without a doubt the only person I have ever heard say that three under isn't any louder. In my time as a traditional archer, going on 8 years now, I have owned a ton of bows and not one has been as quiet shooting 3 under as it is while shooting split. I can take a bow that is set up completely for 3u, not move a single thing, shoot it split and it's still quieter than shooting the bow set up for 3u.
I would love to see a video of how you set up. You obviously know something I, nor the rest of this community does about setting up a bow for 3u. I don't say this at all tongue cheek. I want to learn your ways if you're getting those type of results.
I know it is possible, Daniel. I once attended a class put on by Rod Jenkins who had just received and set up a new Black Widow recurve bow he was shooting 3U. As you probably know, Black Widows are not known for being particularly quiet, but this bow was quieter than any bow I've ever heard except for some compounds. Rod was going to use it for tournament shooting, so I'm sure the arrows were not particularly heavy. One factor may be that Rod knew what tiller he wanted, and had Black Widow make the bow that tiller, which was not their normal 3U tiller.
Personally, once I set the nock point to get a slightly nock-high arrow flight, there's not much more I can do about the mechanics of a non-ILF bow to get it quiet. The two main sources of noise I work on are limb slap and limb bolt vibration. I think that's why longbows are usually quieter than recurves: they don't have limb slap and they are usually one-piece. Some people go further and move the silencers around until they get the least sound from the string, but I just set 'um and forget 'um.
Quote from: McDave on October 18, 2019, 09:42:56 AM
...but I just set 'um and forget 'um.
"Set 'um" where?
3Rivers recommends 10" from the nock loops in their silencer installation vid. Is that the setting you use, or do you have a different preference?
Quote from: Captain*Kirk on October 18, 2019, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: McDave on October 18, 2019, 09:42:56 AM
...but I just set 'um and forget 'um.
"Set 'um" where?
3Rivers recommends 10" from the nock loops in their silencer installation vid. Is that the setting you use, or do you have a different preference?
I put the end of my bow square on the string nock and put the silencer at about the 12" mark, so mine are a little further toward the center than the 3 Rivers vid, but both are arbitrary. They help some, but probably not as much as it would if you tried different positions. I've also heard that it works better if they are both not exactly the same distance from the string nocks. Something to do with dampening harmonic vibrations. One of the problems is that I don't hear very well, so I would have to recruit someone to help me, probably my wife, who doesn't have much patience for that type of thing.
Quote from: DanielB89 on October 18, 2019, 08:45:38 AM
Quote from: dahyer on October 17, 2019, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: Bisch on October 17, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Every bow I have ever tried to shoot 3-under has been louder than split. Don't know if it's enough to bother the critters, but it was certainly enough to bother me!!!
Bisch
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I feel like this is one of the great myths of trad bow. No offense intended Bisch I love your posts.
When you buy a trad bow and it set up for a style of shooting say split you choose the optimum brace height and nock height and tune the bow and then the arrows. Then for some reason people grow a wild hair and just randomly shoot three under and of course its louder. Your bow ain't set up! I shoot three under but dont advocate one way or the other. But it bothers the crud out of me when people say its louder to shoot three under. Half of my bows are tillered for split so that's 4 of 8. However all 8 are setup for three under shooting and have never encountered a quieter setup when visiting the local range. I honestly cant believe how loud the bows I hear there are. Heres the truth if your bow is setup for three under shooting it will shoot quieter than split. If your bow is setup for split it will likely be quieter than three under with no changes. I don't have a decibal reader and have no concrete way of measuring. However, noise varies bow to bow, by release, type of arrow, and setup all come into play. I have a bow for instance that is tillered for split and setup for three under. My friend not 15 feet away around the bend of my house cannot tell it has been shot until the arrow impacts the target. Its the quietest bow I have and is significantly louder when properly setup for split. The second quietest I own is a three under tillered for three under.
All in all I do not mean to rant but of course if you take a car setup for drag racing it will not perform well on a rally course. I am soooooo tired of split community as a whole trashing three under on noise when they typically wont change anything but their fingers. I switched from split to battle a non dominant eye issue. My nocking point changed by less than 1/4 depending on the bow and I have never had a noise issue. Three under tiller is an "equal" tiller and overall seems to be quieter in my experience.
Rant over.
You are without a doubt the only person I have ever heard say that three under isn't any louder. In my time as a traditional archer, going on 8 years now, I have owned a ton of bows and not one has been as quiet shooting 3 under as it is while shooting split. I can take a bow that is set up completely for 3u, not move a single thing, shoot it split and it's still quieter than shooting the bow set up for 3u.
I would love to see a video of how you set up. You obviously know something I, nor the rest of this community does about setting up a bow for 3u. I don't say this at all tongue cheek. I want to learn your ways if you're getting those type of results.
Couple things that I can say off hand about my setups that probably help and I definitely would love to make a video on it and I may just do so. A great idea to be sure.
1. I make my own strings. Sounds funny but I have experimented extensively with many materials and I have found that d97 produces the quietest strings as far as fast flight is concerned. I have made strings in everything from 8 strands all the way to 16. While it sounds crazy I do a full 16 strands and it's super quiet.
2. I shoot my bows slightly nock high.
3. Rest material. Soft leather and super pad I have found are quieter than calf hair and velcro.
4. Ring finger. Mine is simply along for the ride. My pointer and middle finger are hooked on the string at first joint. My ring finger doesnt hardly do any of the pulling it kinda rests there on the pad under slight tension making it so my middle finger isn't pinched or holding all the weight. This kinda naturally developed for me and it has works very well for me.
5. Now that I am a dedicated 3 under shooter and have been for 5 years now. My newest bow which I was gonna order anyway I got tillered for 3u.
6. Arrows. I shoot decently heavy wood arrows and have for 4 years. My arrow weight is about 600 grains with 190 upfront now. I have found wood arrows to be so pleasantly quiet off shelf compared to carbon or aluminum.
I'll bring a few or my bows to that January hog hunt to let you shoot and see what you think. Perhaps I am full of it but I'd like to think not :biglaugh:. The biggest factors in noise reduction if I had to guess of the ones I listed are probably string, ring finger tech, and heavy arrows.
Quote from: McDave on October 18, 2019, 09:42:56 AM
Personally, once I set the nock point to get a slightly nock-high arrow flight, there's not much more I can do about the mechanics of a non-ILF bow to get it quiet.
this is my point. There is only so much I KNOW how to do on a bow. I am curious if there is something out there I don't know. I have NEVER been able to get a bow 3u to be as quiet as the same bow shooting split. I have one of the quietest longbows i've ever owned, but it is still louder 3u than split and that is shooting them both, both ways.
Quote from: dahyer on October 18, 2019, 11:18:54 AM
Quote from: DanielB89 on October 18, 2019, 08:45:38 AM
Quote from: dahyer on October 17, 2019, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: Bisch on October 17, 2019, 05:22:07 PM
Every bow I have ever tried to shoot 3-under has been louder than split. Don't know if it's enough to bother the critters, but it was certainly enough to bother me!!!
Bisch
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I feel like this is one of the great myths of trad bow. No offense intended Bisch I love your posts.
When you buy a trad bow and it set up for a style of shooting say split you choose the optimum brace height and nock height and tune the bow and then the arrows. Then for some reason people grow a wild hair and just randomly shoot three under and of course its louder. Your bow ain't set up! I shoot three under but dont advocate one way or the other. But it bothers the crud out of me when people say its louder to shoot three under. Half of my bows are tillered for split so that's 4 of 8. However all 8 are setup for three under shooting and have never encountered a quieter setup when visiting the local range. I honestly cant believe how loud the bows I hear there are. Heres the truth if your bow is setup for three under shooting it will shoot quieter than split. If your bow is setup for split it will likely be quieter than three under with no changes. I don't have a decibal reader and have no concrete way of measuring. However, noise varies bow to bow, by release, type of arrow, and setup all come into play. I have a bow for instance that is tillered for split and setup for three under. My friend not 15 feet away around the bend of my house cannot tell it has been shot until the arrow impacts the target. Its the quietest bow I have and is significantly louder when properly setup for split. The second quietest I own is a three under tillered for three under.
All in all I do not mean to rant but of course if you take a car setup for drag racing it will not perform well on a rally course. I am soooooo tired of split community as a whole trashing three under on noise when they typically wont change anything but their fingers. I switched from split to battle a non dominant eye issue. My nocking point changed by less than 1/4 depending on the bow and I have never had a noise issue. Three under tiller is an "equal" tiller and overall seems to be quieter in my experience.
Rant over.
You are without a doubt the only person I have ever heard say that three under isn't any louder. In my time as a traditional archer, going on 8 years now, I have owned a ton of bows and not one has been as quiet shooting 3 under as it is while shooting split. I can take a bow that is set up completely for 3u, not move a single thing, shoot it split and it's still quieter than shooting the bow set up for 3u.
I would love to see a video of how you set up. You obviously know something I, nor the rest of this community does about setting up a bow for 3u. I don't say this at all tongue cheek. I want to learn your ways if you're getting those type of results.
Couple things that I can say off hand about my setups that probably help and I definitely would love to make a video on it and I may just do so. A great idea to be sure.
1. I make my own strings. Sounds funny but I have experimented extensively with many materials and I have found that d97 produces the quietest strings as far as fast flight is concerned. I have made strings in everything from 8 strands all the way to 16. While it sounds crazy I do a full 16 strands and it's super quiet.
2. I shoot my bows slightly nock high.
3. Rest material. Soft leather and super pad I have found are quieter than calf hair and velcro.
4. Ring finger. Mine is simply along for the ride. My pointer and middle finger are hooked on the string at first joint. My ring finger doesnt hardly do any of the pulling it kinda rests there on the pad under slight tension making it so my middle finger isn't pinched or holding all the weight. This kinda naturally developed for me and it has works very well for me.
5. Now that I am a dedicated 3 under shooter and have been for 5 years now. My newest bow which I was gonna order anyway I got tillered for 3u.
6. Arrows. I shoot decently heavy wood arrows and have for 4 years. My arrow weight is about 600 grains with 190 upfront now. I have found wood arrows to be so pleasantly quiet off shelf compared to carbon or aluminum.
I'll bring a few or my bows to that January hog hunt to let you shoot and see what you think. Perhaps I am full of it but I'd like to think not :biglaugh:. The biggest factors in noise reduction if I had to guess of the ones I listed are probably string, ring finger tech, and heavy arrows.
Sounds good! We will see who can kill the most pigs too! Poor Randy has yet to kill one on a hunt.. poor fella..