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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: madmaxthc on April 27, 2019, 11:55:04 PM

Title: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on April 27, 2019, 11:55:04 PM
Hello, TradGangers,

When I switched to heavy heads (170-190 grains) and carbon shafts, with normal inserts, I have seen a tendency of the shaft to go "mushroom". I have now purchased the 100 grains longer inserts, but haven't had time to try them yet.
In your experience, would that be enough to enure resistance to impact on deer and hogs? 

Cheers,
Max
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Zwickey-Fever on April 28, 2019, 01:03:27 AM
I'm wondering if footing your carbon shafts with aluminum would be a better alternative?? I would lean more that way if possible. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: hybridbow hunter on April 28, 2019, 02:37:23 AM
A German company TopHat makes heavy steel insert and steel collars with lots of size fitting with very low tolerance most of the shafts in 5/16 and 9/32.
You can even add a second collar at the nock end for added strength. This is by far the best system for the money and lowest time consuming to make a VERY durable shaft

Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Bldtrailer on April 28, 2019, 06:38:06 AM
foot them with the right size  xx75 s or the collars above( I do both ends with 2117 x 2inch front 3/8 back)
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Bldtrailer on April 28, 2019, 06:39:52 AM
[attachment=1,msg2865373] I use big Jim's hot melt for inserts and footings
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on April 28, 2019, 01:06:34 PM
I shoot wood arrows but if I still shot carbons I would look at Day 6 carbon arrows.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on April 28, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Thank you all for the advice,

I have been reading a lot about footing today.
Something that bothers me about the footing is that I will probably have to switch to field points that fit the aluminum shaft rather than the carbon one. Per se is not a big deal, but that also means that they would create a ridge just behind some broadheads, such as the Simmons. Any thoughts on that regard?

I also learned more about collars; I checked the TopHat ones and also realized 3Rivers has 5 grains collars which seem to have a slope to attenuate the difference in diameter with the arrow head. I was thinking to use them together with the 100 grains brass inserts. Any experience with thoem?

Thanks again for your kind help,
Max
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Bldtrailer on April 28, 2019, 04:04:57 PM
I make my footings by cutting on my arrow saw 1-2 inch lengths (you could use a pipe cutter and deburr) and then put them in a drill and sand/file round the edges (no need for bigger field pnts) It saves a lot of arrows , not all but many.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on April 28, 2019, 06:36:01 PM
Great info, thank you  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Terry Green on April 28, 2019, 06:50:37 PM
I have shot a 175 grains since the eighties.... With normal inserts..... And out of 60 to 80 pound bows...

Not sure why your arrows are mushrooming unless they're poor quality..... Or I misunderstood your question.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: blacktailbob on April 28, 2019, 07:09:03 PM
What exactly are shooting at or missing and then hitting?

Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on April 28, 2019, 07:24:13 PM
Great, thanks guys. I missed the target a couple of times while training and hit some stones, OK? No need to rub it in  :knothead:

Also hit a deer's shoulder blade last winter. I was not expecting a Simmons to get through that, but didn't expect the shaft to go  mushroom either.

Fine, I'll try and practice more  :dunno:

;)
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: katman on April 28, 2019, 08:38:44 PM
Foot with aluminum should help your mushroom problem. here is a size chart in the how to section.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=108926.msg2041043#msg2041043

Taper ends, I use a reloading deburring tool.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on April 28, 2019, 08:47:15 PM
That's great info, thank you!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: acedoc on April 30, 2019, 01:25:48 AM
I foot beman ics with xx75 of correct size and there is no ridge between the base of field point and the insert. If so particular you may want to use a fine file or sandpaper to grind fit. If hunting then the ferrule of your broadhead should be the focus of your concern and it should be the thickest (as low as possible) part of your arrow assembly.
Footing plain works but can not protect against hard hits. I have had neck ends splinter against a mulberry stump, but that arrow is around 4 years old and has stood upto a lot of shots.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Jason W on April 30, 2019, 04:43:16 AM
Footing the front end of carbon makes them pretty indestructible.
We have 12 sizes in short and long that fit just about everything out there.

I am also releasing this new system tomorrow.

Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: imbowhunt10 on April 30, 2019, 09:38:50 AM
This is what I like about the Grizzly Instinct. The end of my arrow is hidden inside the Broadhead. It is not indestructible, but I feel very confident in its integrity, without being footed.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: acedoc on April 30, 2019, 12:23:07 PM
Quote from: TUFFHEAD on April 30, 2019, 04:43:16 AM
Footing the front end of carbon makes them pretty indestructible.
We have 12 sizes in short and long that fit just about everything out there.

I am also releasing this new system tomorrow.
Nice
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: imbowhunt10 on April 30, 2019, 08:52:39 PM
I forgot to mention in my post above, that is a carbon arrow the Instinct is mounted on.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on April 30, 2019, 10:49:02 PM
Quote from: TUFFHEAD on April 30, 2019, 04:43:16 AM
Footing the front end of carbon makes them pretty indestructible.
We have 12 sizes in short and long that fit just about everything out there.

I am also releasing this new system tomorrow.

That looks really interesting. I'll keep an eye on the website. What is the weight and the length of those footings? Also, it looks like they would work with any head, am I correct?

Thanks,
Max

Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Jason W on May 01, 2019, 04:36:30 AM


The adapter in stainless is 200g full length. It can be cut to 150g. There is cut marks.
The aluminum version (solid aluminum) is 100g full and can be cut to 50g.
Each system is provided with a tapered sleeve. SS is 40g and aluminum in 20g.

Go to my You Tube page and see my real quick video on the system.

Yes, this adapter was created to be comparable with all glue in broadheads. However, when using the TUFFHEAD or MEATHEAD it is triple reinforced by our larger 23/64" ferrule.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on May 01, 2019, 06:08:34 PM
Thank you for the info. I found the sleeves on the website, although I cannot find the video on youtube?

Thank you for the advice, the website is pretty informative.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Jason W on May 01, 2019, 07:12:50 PM
If you look on the bottom of my web page, it has my instagram feed. The video is posted there as well.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on May 01, 2019, 10:40:47 PM
Got it, thank you  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Overspined on May 10, 2019, 10:15:15 PM
I started using smooth-on adhesive for the standard 80 Gr inserts (w/ a touch of outsert) on victory Trad arrows. Loving it. I saw the recommendation on TG and tried it. No mushrooming and solid end of arrow. Outserts seem like a PIA to deal with. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Tedd on May 11, 2019, 10:39:10 AM
Tuffhead, I see you adapter system has a taper exclusive to Tuffheads. I understand that. What is that "standard" taper for glue on broached adapters and are those something that would be available in the future? For fitting field points and non-tuffhead broad heads.Your broad heads look great I just prefer a little more width for wet weather whitetail rib cages. Most of  the time I am a fan of the 1" single bevel.
Or just make a wider cut broadhead! (Zwickey Delta width). I have so much hardware that uses the standard taper laying around.
Thank you,
Tedd
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: madmaxthc on May 11, 2019, 06:56:32 PM
Quote from: Overspined on May 10, 2019, 10:15:15 PM
I started using smooth-on adhesive for the standard 80 Gr inserts (w/ a touch of outsert) on victory Trad arrows. Loving it. I saw the recommendation on TG and tried it. No mushrooming and solid end of arrow. Outserts seem like a PIA to deal with. Just my opinion.

Thank you, I did not know about them. They are basically collars and insert all in one, seems interesting.


Quote from: Tedd on May 11, 2019, 10:39:10 AM

Or just make a wider cut broadhead! (Zwickey Delta width).
Thank you,
Tedd

Hey, I second that  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Jason W on May 12, 2019, 03:28:21 PM
Quote from: Tedd on May 11, 2019, 10:39:10 AM
Tuffhead, I see you adapter system has a taper exclusive to Tuffheads. I understand that. What is that "standard" taper for glue on broached adapters and are those something that would be available in the future? For fitting field points and non-tuffhead broad heads.Your broad heads look great I just prefer a little more width for wet weather whitetail rib cages. Most of  the time I am a fan of the 1" single bevel.
Or just make a wider cut broadhead! (Zwickey Delta width). I have so much hardware that uses the standard taper laying around.
Thank you,
Tedd

Tedd,
I offer "2" types of direct bond adapters.
1) Exclusively made for my head. The Direct bond Tuffhead Adpater.
2) The Disrect Bond System with sleeve. These are comparable with most glue on broadheads. If used with my heads, you gain a 3rd point of re-inforcement.
These also work great with my glue on field points.
I will see if I can post a video I did real quick to explain the different adapters.
You can also see the video if you go onto my instagram account in my igtv video
Title: Re: Yet another question regarding heavy heads and inserts
Post by: Tedd on May 12, 2019, 05:37:39 PM
Got it! Thank you. I'll be getting some of those for my Black Eagle shafts.
(I'm think about trying the smallest diameter adapter in the front of a wood shaft. It might stiffen the spine while adding weight.)
Tedd