Thanks to Gary at D&M for sending me this collection to play with.....
I will be spending some time with them for the next few weeks....
They will then be shipped to Tom Phillips where they will be available to all bear quest attendees To evaluate during their downtime in camp.
I may also be acquiring another company to be evaluated here also.
I will post more later....
[attachment=1,msg2860979]
Nice collection! Gary does a great job
:campfire: :coffee: i'll be all ears on this one! it seems i never shoot the same arrow two seasons in a row.
1st Up....
[attachment=1]
Gary certain makes some eye candy arrows.
Very impressed with this arrow....absolutely beautiful to boot.
They showed weak for me out of my 60# Moab.....but very consistent...
The photo below reveals both shots went 6 inches right at 15 yards and the hole underneath was the 1st shot....bow tip shows hole I was aiming at.
[attachment=1]
Other shots at distance, not related to placement, reinforced the PERFECT arrow flight I suspected during placement shots....
Just need to stiffen them up a bit.
Next up...
[attachment=1]
These arrows showed weak also, but only 3 inches right....arrow flight was good, just a little 'winding down' in the target. I sensed good arrow flight, but not the same as the Grizz.
Now please be aware these are just my findings out of my bow with my set up.... And has no bearing on individual arrows or arrow companies per say.
These are flat black n skinny...skinnier than any arrow I ever shot.
Again....bow tip pointing to hole I was aiming at......1st shot hole is directly above....
[attachment=1,msg2861036]
Next up....
[attachment=1]
These Arrows have a very slick finish and they are deathly quiet on the draw against the strike plate and rest.....
I am going to assume that Arrow flight was great as I cannot see these very well with this Fletch colouration.....
They seem to be spined perfect for my set up and they pegged the target dead still like the grizzlies.
Opted for a fresh target... I was aiming at the circle I scratched out of the crusty old latex target.....1st shot....
[attachment=1,msg2861039]
Yes...believe it or not...2nd shot.....
[attachment=2,msg2861039]
Last up....
[attachment=1]
Again...plain Jane skinny skinnies....not use to these....kinda strange to me....
Shot good, looks to be on spine for me....arrow flight was good, but like the other skinny, a little wind down....maybe that's inherent with these small diameter shafts....
Again, scratched circle was aiming point....
Bow tip pointing to 1st shot...
[attachment=1]
Gotta LOVE those two holes by the Centershots.
[attachment=2]
Thanks for the church group returning Blacky last week after I donated it to them new over 2 years ago for a shoot....didn't think I was even suppose to get it back.....someone shot some 2 blades at her :biglaugh:
This was not a durability test....I will find that out on my own once I actually own a dozen of what ever I buy. I'm going to be looking into the Centershots for sure, and see if I can't get these Grizzlies to come around. Not sure I can get past these skinnie minnies. ...just a mind thing I guess....plus I like a little more arrow wrap surface....especially since I use reflective a lot.
I will continue to play with these till it's time to pass them on......
Couple questions Terry. When you say "wind down" what do you mean? That the tail of the arrow is down wind? Any thoughts as to why the stiffest arrows are showing weak?
Thanks for the information.
Hermon....winding down...i.e. winding clockwise in the target after impact....
Yes...showing weak cause there are metal footings on them....I'll get some pics. Sorry, I should have covered that!!!
I think that you will like the centershots. Very durable arrows and more affordable as well... at least through us.
They have become our number 1 selling shaft/arrow.
BigJim
Thanks for the input Jim!!! Nice to hear.
Quote from: Terry Green on April 02, 2019, 08:11:52 PM
Hermon....winding down...i.e. winding clockwise in the target after impact.
Don't mean to be dense, just comes naturally I guess, but still not getting the picture. You say it flies good to the target, then winds clockwise after impact? Any way you could explain it differently to a dummy like me? Or a video?
Quote from: BigJim on April 03, 2019, 08:05:45 AM
I think that you will like the centershots. Very durable arrows and more affordable as well... at least through us.
They have become our number 1 selling shaft/arrow.
BigJim
How does the dark timber line hold up against the rest ?
They could be an answer to us long draw types.
So sorry for the delay in getting pictures up of those metal footings....
Kinda funny how Jim showed up... as I'm gonna be shooting these arrows through his bow next week. 54# Thunderchild.
Hermon....I'll try later.
acedoc, Big Jim has a video on the Dark Timber very impressive.
I did see that video and its impressive! I found the accuracy Terry has even more impressive and would have loved to see this arrow being tested. It has the potential to be a game changer for us long draw types.
Tomorrow I will revisit these arrows out of a Lighter weight bow from Big Jim...
Still to the right a bit with the Grizz...not as far obviously as with the 60# er(2 far right holes)
Stick is 1st hole...[attachment=1,msg2862208]
Here is the footing...I have no idea what it weighs...I need to ask Gary.
[attachment=2,msg2862208]
Flight again was perfect.
The Victory's windage is dead on...little low on both(1.5 - 2 inches) probably me or that they are half the diameter of my normal arrows
.
either way these agree with this poundage and flight was great...no winding down...
[attachment=1,msg2862210]
[attachment=2,msg2862210]
With the Centershot I didn't see a need for a second shot......
[attachment=1]
Obviously these will work out a both Bow weights
[attachment=1,msg2862252][attachment=2,msg2862252]
The Eastons came around also...just low... Now sure if it was me or these tiny diameters f messing with my of sight picture as compared to my twice as large normal arrows.
Either way all of these would probably be pretty compatible with a little fine tunning 3..... But the centershots seemed to work on both.
I don't need to show the centershots footing as they don't have any Footing
Quote from: Hermon on April 02, 2019, 07:19:59 PM
Couple questions Terry. When you say "wind down" what do you mean? That the tail of the arrow is down wind? Any thoughts as to why the stiffest arrows are showing weak?
Thanks for the information.
I have MY THEORY of why the stiffer arrow is showing weak as this is something i've battled for quite some time. I used to shoot 340's and 300's out of bows in the mid to low 50's. It is just something about them, but I could get them to fly like darts; bareshafts and all. In my experience and OPINION, the stiffer shafts show weak due to the tail end of the shaft bouncing off the rest a little due to last of paradox and then they hit weak. This theory is supported by his findings as well. His first arrow is a .330 cut to 30" with a standard insert(not sure what that is in that arrow) and it strikes 6" right(weak for a RH shooter). Then his next arrow was a .400 with a 65 grain insert cut to 30" and it shows less weak than the .330. Next up is the Beman CS that are .400 spine with standard insert and they hit the best of all 3.
Also some factors I think are worth mentioning: The victory's are fletched with 4 fletch shield and the Centershot are 3 fletch parabolic. Not sure of the exact length of the feathers, but I have seen longer fletching effect flight due to clearance.
Either way, thanks for sharing, Terry. I always love reading others findings.
In reference to my previous comment.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=100633.0
Daniel you must have missed one of my post... these arrows are footed with metal on the front.
I have shot all lengths and heights of feathers for over 40 years ...never had a issue with any of them changing point of impact if they were the right spine... Including Flu Flus.
I have shot the same arrows for 20 years with all sorts of configurations ..never has there been a difference in the impact.
And, if there was a clearance issue I would not be getting great flight.
Some of these errors are just showing weak as they are not stiff enough for the added 75grains of footing...
fyi : those grizz outserts weigh 67gr. for the 400 spine
Thanks Larry.... that comes out to a 241 grain head.
Left is Victory footing...right is Easton.
Again I have no idea what they weigh...maybe some of you could chime in or Gary will.
[attachment=1]
The Centershots have no footing.
Griz 67 grains
Victory 65 grains
Easton 100 grains......that is if what it says on the box is correct
Terry what's your draw length on the bows you are using to test these arrows? Thanks.
Quote from: Hoosierarcher88 on April 11, 2019, 10:39:46 AM
Griz 67 grains
Victory 65 grains
Easton 100 grains......that is if what it says on the box is correct
Duh.... I guess I should have paid a little more attention.... The Griz does say regular though :dunno:
Hey Daniel..... I'm gonna get more these Centershots four fletched just for good measure..... If my wife would not have moved and separated my BPE fletching jig parts... I would strip one of these. :knothead: :knothead: :knothead:
Based on beeman's specs the centershots at 29" weigh 467 grains.
Plus insert nock insert nock feathers and metallic reflective rap I'm guessing it's gonna be close to 510 grains when I get through with it......
Which won't be a bad weight considering I will be shooting these from 52 to 56 LB bows....
This was my entire purpose to get away from Error Dystructions trad lites on my lighter weight bows.
Spell check is tearing up your posts! But I can interpret, it's like trying to figure out what my wife means.
I think Error Dystructions fit :biglaugh:
I'm also hoping to get a Dark Timber shaft to work into this.....
4 fletched Centetshot in the works also....
Looking forward to your tests, thanks for taking the time.
Quote from: southernarcher on April 11, 2019, 12:02:51 PM
Terry what's your draw length on the bows you are using to test these arrows? Thanks.
28
Oh, I do want to make it clear again that this is not anything negative against the arrows that don't work for me...... It's just that they don't work for me and not a problem with the arrows. I'm not used to meddle footings at all..... However I have shot 225 and 250 grain Broadheads before out of certain arrows That also accepted down to 250.....
These are as MA it worked with a 100 or a 125 grain Heads.... But I like a lot more hardware in my broadhead than that.
Have some Dark Timbers coming from Big Jim....
Just got in some of Big Jim's Dark Timber Arrows....Shot them with a Big Jim Thunderchild 56" - 56@28...
Arrows are spined 400 and weigh 9.1 grains per inch...
1st shot great flight and looking good....
[attachment=1,msg2868727]
2nd shot....
[attachment=2,msg2868727]
So....looks like I have 2 great options for my lighter weight bows when they're weights are needed.......
The Dark Timbers and Centershots....
The price is right on the dark timbers too.....I may need to try a few of them
Tim B
I'm going to be testing out a new arrow on the market and will add the info here....
Of the ones I tested on this thread, I have stuck with the Dark Timbers and the Center Shots.... I have beat the heck out of both of them.
So, I'd like to add that Big Jim has a bunch of Center Shots, and they are a great value. A really tuff arrow for below the normal price for carbons. So, if you are looking for an affordable arrow for your budget, check out the Center Shots at Big Jims. They are not listed on his site at the moment, but he's got em.....
https://bigjimsbowcompany.com/
Actually Terry, they are listed. All spines available.. Pre fletched too.
Thanks, Bigjim
I need to get three dozen of the center shot 500 spine. I love these arrows,and of course they're going to discontinue them :banghead:
Actually Alexander Traditional, they are discontinued.
I bought 1300 dz various spines and some pre fletched. They have been selling very fast though.
Thanks, BigJim
So sorry Jim, I just totally missed them....
Here they are....
https://bigjimsbowcompany.com/product/beman-centershot-shafts/
Nice!
Just seeing this post for the first time so wanted to take the opportunity to give a "shoot out" for D&M - Gary Halls arrows. I own three sets. Not only do they shoot great but they also look pretty darn good in the target!!!
OK, here's my report so far on the Traditional Only Barebow arrows.....
They are shooting really well out My 55# Super Shrew and are the 400 spine. The only issue I had was I got a little kick every once and a while on unorthodox shots. So, moved from my standard 175 grain heads to 225s. All sure seems to be well now.
At the moment, they are holding up really well taking a beating with Judos.
I'm either shooting Judos or Bheads, hardly ever shoot field points at all..... as you can see in the pic below....
[attachment=1,msg2960034]
That peg stood out really nice in the sun on that grey background and these we the 1st 5 shots I took with them...
[attachment=2,msg2960034]
Wouldn't hesitate to hunt with them at all at this point, but I'm gonna keep banging on them for now.
This is a Denny Sturgis Jr / Three Rivers venture..... give em a look...
Terry,
I've only seen Judo points in 100 and 125 grains.
If you're shooting Judo points, how do you increase point weight? Change the insert?
Glue ons with inserts.
I've been shooting 135 gn glue owns with 42 grain adapters since the eighties.
Because they match my 135 Zwicky Delta 4 blades to a T.