anyone use it? Show example (pics) and your reasoning
I was thinking about them as my release isnt the cleanest at times
i used to use a 4x4" fletch- instead of a 3x5"
never found much difference, really worked on my bareshaft tuning, now shoot 3x4" - really good flight- with all broadheads.
i liked the 4 fletch- it was something different- sure made it easy to nock an arrow without looking down.
but it does cost 25% more to fletch :bigsmyl:
i dont know if it would help with a release issue, but each to their own.
it will knock the trajectory off, as soon as the speed starts to bleed off, with 33% more drag. and it will effect the dynamic spine of the shaft slightly- stiffening it slightly!
I have recently gone back to 4 x 4" on 90 Degrees Parabolics because they are much more quiet than 3 x 5" Shields. Had a buddy stand behind a tree just off of my target and he said the 4 x 4" were almost silent. Over the years I Had gone back to 3 x 5" but decided the 4 x 4" are the best for me.
Good luck.
I shoot 4 fletch when I use feathers. I generally use 4 3 inch feathers in a parabolic or similar to a blazer vane that I burn just wider than my broadhead. If you shoot 90 degree 4 fletch test for good clearance on your shelf or rest as there is no optimal alignment. If you use a bitz there is an alternate 120/60 degree 4 fletch setting that gives a much more forgiving clearance.
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x409/manehonkie/20190326_112006.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/manehonkie/media/20190326_112006.jpg.html)
This yellow fletch is 90 degrees. You can see why this is less than optimal, particularly off the shelf.
(http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x409/manehonkie/20190326_111848.jpg) (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/manehonkie/media/20190326_111848.jpg.html)
This setting is more forgiving. If you shoot off the shelf rotating the nock to align the inner most feather to 2 o'clock is probably the best.
Have used 4 4" fletch for about 40 years, set at 75 x 105. No particular reason except I like how they fly and don't require looking at them to get the cock feather right.
very interesting point on the silence- i will have to check that out for myself again!
went to 4 4 inch low profile banana fletch last year. Contrary to Wayne's finding, it's actually cheaper. I can get 2 4 inch fletch from a full length feather but only 1 5.5 inch for my old high back shields. I still prefer the look of the 3 5.5 shields and may go back.
good point! Murray!
Question for you four fletch shooters. Do you find the feathers more septible to rubbing on each other in a quiver?
My choice for my spring turkey bow is which one that I can shoot and hit a turkey size target the most often at 30 yards with my 4 by 4" 1918s with the Herters four blade heads. The winner is my left hand Berry Morningstar.
Quote from: joe vt on March 26, 2019, 07:30:40 PM
Question for you four fletch shooters. Do you find the feathers more septible to rubbing on each other in a quiver?
I don't but my feathers are not as tall as most.
No, I don't have any issues with feathers rubbing. Yes, it is a tighter fit in my bow quivers than 3-fletch, but not so tight that they won't fit easily or with rubbing. The Target Maxx feathers that I use most make it even easier than shields, because of the low profile. I have no issues with noise unless I get a bad feather, which is rare and easy to spot and replace. I like nocking in any orientation, without feather referencing and, I use 90-degree orientation. I have not experienced any clearance or wear conditions on my plate or rest. Generally 4" or 4.5" feathers.
so heres something i want to ask, and like most of us, i am probably overthinking this.
we are told, that with woods and carbons to test the spines on the shaft to ascertain which is the stiffest side- and to always use that against the bow.
I know the wooden shafts i use- have the spine and mass, stamped on the shaft on the side it was measured- so when the spines are matched, i simply build my arrows with those numbered sides against the riser.
so if we are doing a "no look" nocking orientation- that point would be negated.
not withstanding the other benefits of the 4 fletch of course!
Lots of great infor here and all valid points!
I will throw my opinion into the mix. :campfire:
I love 4 fletch, I find a good tuned arrow will stabilize even quicker with 4 fletch. I do try to use a smaller feather when I 4 fletch.
I have always been a big fan of 3-4" parabolic feathers as they have less drag than 3-5", or even 4-3". And are MUCH quieter. We have done lots of tests on sound and found that parabolic is much quieter. Even with 4 fletch.
In my typical hunting situation, I like 4-4" parabolic so I get the best and quickest stabilization at short ranges. I typically hunt 20 yards and in, so, drag is not really an issue. If I would hunt in open areas where I might take a shot at 30y, then I would play with 2"-3" 4 fletch configurations.
Last year I shot the 2" gateway Batwings for field archery and hunting. I was very impressed with these little feathers. However, lots of time and tuning needs done to shoot a feather that small.
This is why the A&A feather is a great choice. 2.5" 4 fletch is a great balance for most hunting/shooting situations. The A&A feather is pretty impressive on stabilization and drag.
One more thing, When I 3 fletch, I put a helical on the feather. When I 4 fletch, I do straight. The helical with 4 fletch manipulates the flight too much for me. You can see the arrow rotation too much. IMO
I didn't take time to read anything as I posted on this 700 times since Tradgang started.....
There are benefits to four Fletch......
I went from 5 and a 1/2 inch 3 fletch to 5 inch 4 Fletch on the same jig.... No noticeable distance In trajectory at all....out to any distance.
The gofers at 40 to 60 yards with Doug Campbell didn't know the difference ...but the hogs inside 8 yards in 4 states sure did.
For the bow hunter I think the benefits Out weigh any kind of cons most couldn't shoot the difference.
Fujimo, nock is oriented parallel to stiff side of arrow so when nocked the arrows stiff side is perpendicular to bow. Rotate arrow 180 degrees and nock it, stiff spine is still perpendicular to bow.
Love my 4 fletch, 4x4@90 parabolics. Good stabilization, just nock and shoot.
I used 4x4" for a while. But went back to 3x4". The reasons I went back were that I could not tell the difference when shooting (less than 35 yards - greater than 35, then 3 is better), three is quicker and less expensive to fletch when building your own arrows, 3 fletched arrows bunch up in my quiver more compactly, and lastly because Black Eagle does a great job with their 3 fletched and crested arrows, so why not just use them.
Well said Terry.
The advantages out way the disadvantages for a bowhunter!
My only point to make is, with 4 feathers, use the quietest feather your comfortable with. And there is a noticible sound between different feathers.
Hunting and quiet go hand and hand.
To me, 4 fletch makes a lot of sense on a hunting arrow. I always want lots of feather to steer a broadhead under hunting conditions...imperfect release, damp, etc.
Roger makes a great point. It doesn't take much to steer a well tuned arrow under ideal conditions. Hunting conditions just can't be counted on to be ideal. I will not sacrifice arrow stability for anything and I will not minimize that stability for a foot or two per second. It just doesn't make that much difference unless you are mostly a target shooter.
i concur Katman, however both carbons and wood will have one particular stiff side- even on the edge grain- one side can measure stiffer than 180 degrees over on the other side.
true- on good shafts though, its negligible.
I too like 4 fletch- was just seeing if others had considered this
I don't believe radial wrapped carbons have a stiff side...but I could be wrong. I never tuned for nock or feathers with mine.
Fugimo are you saying your wood shafts are spine stamped and the side of the shaft that matches the other shafts spines and it doesn't matter which way the grain faces as long as they are matched??
Quote from: Roger Norris on March 27, 2019, 09:16:48 AM
To me, 4 fletch makes a lot of sense on a hunting arrow. I always want lots of feather to steer a broadhead under hunting conditions...imperfect release, damp, etc.
x3 or whatever we're on...lol
I use 4-5" for that very reason.
My fletch is slightly lower profile than most to keep the noise down...but after doing the math I found that I still have more feather than a regular 3-5.5"
I have shot both 3 and 4 fletch. Im currently using mostly 4" x 4 fletch which shoots great. I am slowly moving to 3" x 4 fletch since it shoots just as well for me even with BH's. I can't tell the difference other than the small 4 fletch is quieter in flight.
Terry, i stand corrected.
when i first started shooting and shot carbons, the ones i had were a "rolled carbon construction"- and when i put them on a spine tester i saw a difference!
I gave up on carbons( not for that reason though) and have since shot wood exclusively. so i had to research " radial carbons" to get a better understanding.
thanks for the insight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfse8y7XqbE
Sorry Kingstaken, i am not sure if i understood you correctly.
maybe i should explain a bit better- apologies- sometimes my fingers move faster than my brain :laughing:
the woods that i use, have been manually spine tested and so the spine has always been measured on the edge grain, i place the printed figures against the riser
yeah.... should add that I shoot wood on my 4 fletch.
I mark my arrows so that I always nock them the same way.
I'm not sure if I'd ever notice the difference in spine when 180˚ different.....but for me confidence in consistency is a big help.
Quote from: Terry Green on March 27, 2019, 11:17:29 PM
I don't believe radial wrapped carbons have a stiff side...but I could be wrong. I never tuned for nock or feathers with mine.
Rolling my shafts raising nock so arrow is at a 45 degree angle with pressure in the middle of arrow shows the stiff side easily. All my current shafts exhibit this, black eagle x-impact, easton axis, arrow dynamic stingers ,ad trads and widowmaker smash. I will mark the stiff side and orient nock in line with this then bareshaft shoot them to see that they group well before fletching
I have always used a 5 1/2" 4 fletch for 2 reasons, a heavy arrow with a 31" draw and I can nock an arrow for a quick shot and not have to worry about indexing the fletching. :archer2:
Katman, great observation, and good and simple method in dealing with it :thumbsup:
is this something you have done for a while- or have you just started doing it.
if its a new process, i might also test them on the spine tester, orientated to that stiff side mark you have made , to make sure they are all in the same spine group.
i am not quite sure how the carbons are tested- do they only go on material content and diameter- or does the factory actually spine test them.
and if the do spine test them, it will be on an automatic spine tester- that will certainly not orientate the stiff side to the applied pressure.
I have a thread on here where I spine tested a bunch of shafts and recorded the spine variances. CX was the worst, one shaft had 17lbs of variance in a quarter turn. Easton was the best. Easton Axis has more than one stiff spot do to the way they are laid up but little variance around the whole shaft.
do you have a link to that thread BBJ
fujimo, been doing it since I switched from wood shafts many years ago. The original grizzlystick shaft had a seam I believe and they recommended finding and orienting the stiff side.
kat. The grizzly sticks I was sent years a go had a stiff spine side which I was told directly by them. None of my radial wraps do...... Never adjusted for anything never had to never seen a need to.... I just fletched them and nocked them however they fell.... I was under the impression that was the whole purpose of radial wraps to get away from a stiff side....now I'm terriblly confused as I have totally defied this concept and physics for years with no consequences.
How can that be??? :dunno:
I tend to believe the video posted above which I was told over 20 years ago..... Be for YouTube even existed
Kat... A must add I'm not saying what you're saying is not true..... I'm just saying I went by that code I was told and the code that is in the video.... And it worked out well for years and years without no involvement of me finding some sort of stiff spine.
I've gone to four 4-fletch over the past couple of years, mostly because I can get two fletches out of one feather. I cut them a little narrower, 1/2-inch high vs 9/16 for the three five inch I used previously. Don't see any difference in arrow flight or stabilization.
One nice feature of the shorter fletching is that the arrow gripper I use doesn't mash the front edge of the shorter fletching like it did the 5-inch fletching. Of course, if you shoot a bow with a high brace height, that's not an issue.
Fujimo: If I understand you correctly, your arrow supplier stamps the spine and weight on the parallel grain. That's a very nice feature. Basically finds and marks the stiff orientation for you. That gives you two options for mounting the nock, either orienting the numbered side toward the side plate, or away from it -- its 180 degree flip side.
Quote from: fujimo on March 29, 2019, 12:45:44 AM
do you have a link to that thread BBJ
I can't find the thread where I compared a bunch of different brands, maybe it was on another site. I did find this one where I have detailed reading on some Axis and Bloodsport shafts.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=95494.0
Terry, maybe it is just me but if I rotate the nock 90 degrees the bareshaft will show weaker, not a bunch but some. I have an occasional bareshaft that requires tuning with nock position to get it in line with the others.
You do like a lot of feather so maybe that handles the slight difference for you. Another plus for four fletch.
I did not always shoot 4 fletch....I have shot 5.5 3 fletch since I was 8....
That wasn't considered a lot of feather that was considered the norm.
I have radial carbons with all sorts of fletch configurations in length and numbers....none shoot bad in the perfect shoot scenarios.
I just didn't one day discover four Fletch...
I found it superior for my hunting style. And that was only about 10 years ago.... And it has everything to do with what happens in the field.
I never chose it to cover up a spine issue.. but to better serve my hunting style....for several reasons and not one was back yard shot issues.
All of my shooting videos in the archives were done with 3 Fletch radials....
Maybe that small amount you are finding really doesn't matter on these type arrows?....just wondering.
Many years ago, I got into the subject of stiff side with cedar shafts at an area archery shop. they had an old dusty spine tester. I showed them the spine difference at 90 degrees. Their argument was that arrow spines were tested on spinning shafts, so no matter what, the average would still be good. They were a bit surprised to see how the spine tester worked, I do not think that ever used it before that. for those that don't know, the grain goes at 90 degrees to the bow string and if there are flare out grains, the part that is pointing away goes on top. I shoot both left and right hand in the same bows, I mark which way is up on the arrows that have flared grain with four fletch arrows and shoot them nock index in if I need to.
Quote from: Orion on March 29, 2019, 10:50:00 AM
Fujimo: If I understand you correctly, your arrow supplier stamps the spine and weight on the parallel grain. That's a very nice feature. Basically finds and marks the stiff orientation for you. That gives you two options for mounting the nock, either orienting the numbered side toward the side plate, or away from it -- its 180 degree flip side.
Correct- it works really well.
with hand written spine results- they could be written anywhere on the shaft.
the other thing i like about it, is that there is no fudging or misreading the results, with manual testing and written, there is the possibility that there could be inaccuracies- intentional or unintentional.
Great thread BTW guys!!!