I have some in the works and on the way...and Smokinjoe has been playing around with some already...
I'm expecting a package from D & M any day now....
Joe and I are on a mission to find the ultimate 'Night Hog' arrow....
Stay tuned....
:campfire: :coffee:
Let us know what works the best.
You bet Sam..... I was recommended a certain nock which I relayed to Joe, and he jumped on it.
In the meantime another nock became available in a size that would work..... So I'm gonna be experimentin with those.
Terry, I don't have particularly great night vision, so I shoot poorly at night. Will lighted arrows assist with this problem, or just make it easier to find lost arrows?
Sam,
My experiments suggest that practicing with a night arrow may help your night shooting. It seems that part of shooting accurately is practicing with an arrow you can see.
As far as night vision is concerned, we are also working on a couple of things that can be applied to hog hunting in most places.
Stay tuned.
Joe
Sam...are you using a bright enough light at night?
Quote from: Sam McMichael on March 22, 2019, 08:59:55 AM
Terry, I don't have particularly great night vision, so I shoot poorly at night. Will lighted arrows assist with this problem, or just make it easier to find lost arrows?
Sam,
i've used lighted nocks for a while. I don't know of anything that can match their ability to help you see your arrow in flight, both in daylight and at night.
Quote from: Sam McMichael on March 22, 2019, 08:59:55 AM
Terry, I don't have particularly great night vision, so I shoot poorly at night. Will lighted arrows assist with this problem, or just make it easier to find lost arrows?
Lighted nocks will not help with shooting at night w/ poor vision. You still need to see what your aiming at. It will allow you to see the arrow in flight at the target as mentioned above and as you said to find your arrow .
What kingstaken said. You need to see what you're aiming at 1st. What Joe and I are devising is definitely a way to see where you hit better and recover your arrow better....... Just stay tuned.
Can I hope this will work on woodies, or just Easton arrows?
:coffee: :thumbsup: :archer2: :campfire:
Wud.... Just worry about Sending me that Moab :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
I'll be following this as we're over run here . We killed 3 last night just goofing off with friends.
Glow-on paint is a Phosphorescent paint that can be seen in the dark. Then there is reflector tape, that will shine in the dark when hit with a light. Might work with a green, yellow or red headlamp commonly called camping headlamps. Green and yellow lights may not spook your target like those made by Totobay GRDE Zoomable 3 mode LED headlamp.
Wud.... Just messing with you.... I don't know if they make lighted nocks for a wood arrow.
E.T.All Joe and I are convinced the green lightt is far Superior.
We will be using reflective wraps...
[attachment=1]
With Flash...
[attachment=2]
Maybe Terry and I will expand this thread to include thoughts about hog lights as well as reflective wraps and lighted nocks.
In late-day hunting -- like deer at dusk -- being able to see the arrow in flight is important, but difficult. Making that easier is worthwhile.
If the arrow is not a pass thru, seeing the arrow as the deer runs off can really help.
Finding the arrow is always helpful.
But, you have to see what you are shooting at. For hogs after dark there are some ideas we can share.
Sure thing Joe,..... Hog lights go along with the Midnight Arrow obviously....both bow and stationary mounts. And green lenses seems to be superior by the consensus, and from what I have found myself. I just need to get one of those stationary lights like you have Joe.
All... Joe sent me a phone clip last night..... I'm sure he'll make another clip to post here. One last night was an hour before dark..... The fire nocks seem to be very bright even in daylight.
Quote from: Terry Green on March 22, 2019, 05:32:50 PM
Wud.... Just worry about Sending me that Moab :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Mr. Green; Hold your breath! ;-)
Quote from: Terry Green on March 24, 2019, 08:08:52 AM
Wud.... Just messing with you.... I don't know play make lighted nocks for a wood arrow.
Terry, I saw a YT video a while back where the guy was back-boring wood shafts and using conventional lighted nocks. Sounds like it would make a weak area to me, but I've never tried it.
That would depend on if the bord out area was filled with a quality glue and some type of nock insert...
After all they used to cut slots in wooden arrows for nocks... i.e. self nocks.
Good point. You could probably use a sinew wrap on the transition area like many self-nocks do as well.
In the spirit of "The Midnight Arrow" I have been running some tests.
So far, I prefer the Firenock brand of light-up nocks. They are expensive, but also reliable and durable, easy to turn off, and very bright. They are also easy and quick to get -- I ordered Firenock and another popular brand at the same time. The firelocks came in three days and the other brand several weeks.
Here is a cellphone photo of the Firenock in red shot at sunset looking west.
[attachment=1]
Here is the fire nock 30 minutes after sunset.
[attachment=1]
Here is a photo of two reflective arrow wraps at 12 yards. The photo was taken 40 minutes after sunset.
The arrow on your left has a 6 inch reflective wrap. The arrow on your right has a 1/2 inch wrap between the feathers and the nock. Both reflect very well in the flashlight beam.
[attachment=1]
At this point, my best combination for The Midnight Arrow is an arrow with a Firenock lighted nock, plus a reflective wrap that is at least 6 inches.
That combination is what I will use for afternoon deer hunts until the end of legal shooting time, and for hog hunting in the afternoon and evening as well as hog hunts after dark.
Great Stuff Joe!!!
I'm a little behind but I'm getting started...
Here's my start....
I have used reflective wraps for years and love them so this is where I start....
[attachment=1,msg2860881]
8.5 inch reflective with 4 inch 4 fletch hi viz chartreuse.
Although I recommended the fire nocks to Joe I am trying some new Nocturnals for better testing comparisons..... And other options.
[attachment=2,msg2860881]
Test
Please ignore the Spring cleaning burning...
7:35 eastern....[attachment=1]
Shot #2 - 7:59....
[attachment=1,msg2860913]
My 1st shot The light engaged and I didn't notice any real brightness difference in flight..... But I did on the 2nd shot.
Noticable vision enhancement in flight - 8:15....
[attachment=1,msg2860915]
8:30....
[attachment=1,msg2860918]
Profile - Dark 30....
[attachment=1,msg2860923]
Flash.....
[attachment=2,msg2860923]
REAL Dark profile....
[attachment=1,msg2860936]
Cell phone flash again...
[attachment=2,msg2860936]
Reflective wraps will be helpful finding the arrow after the shot but you only see the nock end of the arrow in flight. A light mounted to the riser can help you see a target in the dark.
I've thought about using a fur tracer behind the fletch as a background for the lighted nock. I haven't messed with the idea yet but may soon.
Pat, you must have missed somebody's post..... Yes we're using green lens bow mounted lights.....
Joe and I both are using mount brackets from Eagle's flight.
Charlie I have a plain Jane arrow that I can insert a lit nock into.... It's the base arrow with no arrow wraps.... Let me know what color I should use, I'm thinking white, And tell me where you order yours from..... And I'll incorporated It in if you like.
To be fair to my Tradgang brethren.... I have to speak my mind.....I would not want to leave anything out that may hinder another trad bowhunter or ruin a hunt...
One of the 3 pack of nocturnals activated upon knocking the arrow..... I could not nock it easy enough it seemed for it to turn on.
These things are pricey and nobody in this time and age has time to send back one nock to get it replaced.
About 4 years ago I ordered some as they were hailed to be the best.... Well two of them broke on the shot.... I had heard they were improved so I took a chance... Even though I have not had a breakage yet, I have to say I'm not happy about this new issue.
I have some Fire Nocks coming....yes, The most expensive but I hear they are the best of the best. I was recommended those by Gary...so I passed that info along to Joe and he's running with it....
From what I understand, even though they are more expensive, he has had 0 problems to this point.....
If we are gonna do it, we're gonna do it right.....
Stay tuned....
3Rivers has them but not in white or yellow which would be my preference. They do have the flo green that you like though.
Thanks Charlie, I have to agree with you, I think white would reflect back at you better than the other colors.....
Firenocks in the works for me now...
Fly tier thinking aloud here....
- Rabbit zonker strips or patches readily available in every colour under the sun for similar/better price as tracer fur from fly tying shops. Just add double sided tape/contact adhesive. Just had a thought that alpaca or arctic fox is available for more bulk/longer hairs if wanted.
- A very soft hackle such as schlappen or marabou may be an option - if I had the time I'd do some tests to see if they impact arrow flight wrapped like a fur tracer, or if we were on the same continent I'd send you some to play with.
There are tying options to get it to stand 'up' more during flight or at rest depending on what you want to see as well e.g. reverse tied cross-cut zonker strips would stand up more during flight but tend to lay flat at rest.
Steve
I used nockturnal and sometimes they shut themselves off after the shot . We shot quite a few hogs in Texas in March some we were trailing we found the arrow and the light was out . As soon as we touched it it came back on . They help with getting a line on the blood trail I don't like to see them go out. We also had a new light we used over the bait from Wal-mart it was a drive way light that has different colors, goes from green to red to blue or white, you can lock onto any color you want, is solar powered comes on at dusk automatically ,and is 120 lumens, brighter than our kill lights and only 25 bucks .
Here is the final version of my Midnight Arrow. It has a Firenock and a 6 inch reflective wrap. I decided on the Firenock because it has been reliable in tests -- working every time. To me, that makes it worth the money.
[attachment=1]
Boy, was I wrong.
The reflective wrap and the lighted nock make my arrow much heavier at the tail end than my usual tuned hunting and 3-D set up. That extra back end weight is enough to introduce some tail wobble that I do not like. In addition, that level of tail wobble opened up my groups and messed up my shooting accuracy.
I will do more testing to see what I can do to get the midnight arrow to fly the way I want.
If the Firenocks are reliable enough, and so far they seem to be, I might decide I don't need the full reflective wrap. After all, the lit nock is far easier to see than the reflective wrap. But, I might just go the other way. The testing will give me the answers.
Many thanks Joe..... Although I haven't had any problems with my arrows.... Please tell us your bow specs, draw weight, draw length, arrow spine, head weight so we will know..... This will go far for those wanting to to add a midnight arrow to their armory....thx.
I am working on a couple of other enhancements....
More goodies ordered!
If you settle on illuminated nocks you can insert a roll-pin into your other arrow nocks to match weight. My buddy has done this for years on his setup. :thumbsup:
Version 2.0 of my Midnight Arrow:
In my last post I mentioned that I was not getting good arrow flight due to the added tail weight of the reflective wrap and the Firenock. So, I did some work.
In my tests so far, the Firenock has worked each and every time with no exceptions at all. Therefore, the reflective wrap on the tail end of the arrow was a bit redundant. Then I started thinking a bit more seriously about real hunting situations.
The Midnight Arrow is mostly for hog hunting. Sure, I will use them for late afternoon deer and bear hunts.
Here is the scenario I think I will have most often: I will be hunting hogs in a state that allows night hunting for hogs. I will shoot a hog that will run off with some of the arrow sticking out both sides -- maybe in him up to the fletching. When the hog falls over dead, I can't count on him falling with the nock side of the arrow up -- so, the place where I need some help with a reflective wrap is behind the broadhead.
I cut some 2" reflective wraps from some leftover 7" reflective wraps that I had, and installed them right behind the carbon collar behind the broad head.
Here is the business end of the NEW, Improved Midnight Arrow:
[attachment=1]
And here is the other end with a standard wrap and a Firenock:
[attachment=1]
Here are the arrow specs:
Shaft: Carbon Tech Cheetah 400 at 29.5" BOP
Nock: Firenock in red
Wrap (back): 6" custom wrap from Onestringer
Feathers: 3@ 4" left wing
Front Wrap: 2" Onestringer reflective with double dogs installed
Footing: 3-Rivers Carbon Collar
Insert: 75 gr. brass glue-in-glue-on broadhead adaptor from Ace Archery Tackle
Point: 185 gr Grizzly single-bevel (weighted up to exactly 190 gr with lead melted into the socket)
Bow Specs for my "Pig Rig"
Riser: Bear A-mag TD riser
Limbs: Border after-market Bear TD limbs #3 -- 42@28 -- pulled to 28.7
String: SBD 10-strand
I'll be taking this rig and arrows on a bear hunt in Quebec in June. With any luck I will get to test the Midnight Arrow.
Quote from: goobersan on April 17, 2019, 04:23:21 PM
If you settle on illuminated nocks you can insert a roll-pin into your other arrow nocks to match weight. My buddy has done this for years on his setup. :thumbsup:
Firenocks come with dummy nocks..... They match the lighted ones but they are unlit.
Also...beyond Joe's findings on the front end...I'm working on other alteratives....stay tuned...
I hadn't read any of this yet. Pretty cool. Was thinking earlier Joe May want to put that reflective wrap up on the front and he did! I bought a 3 pack of the nockturnal strobe nocks this last fall. Absolute junk. Every one of them would go off on the string. Didn't matter what string either. Plunger was just too long I felt. Ones I bought two years ago worked flawlessly. I will have to try this firenock if it keeps up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After talking Joe, I think we have really progressed O this arrow for hunting after dark where legal.....
This arrow we have been, and are still working on, should be a great asset to those that can legally hunt after dark.
Hopefully Joe and I will get a chance to put this to the test before the February of 2020.
Many thanks to Sponsor One Stringer for helping us on this quest...
:clapper:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Been keepin an eye on this one. Big thanks to all !
Probably stick with my orange feathers, white and orange cresting, and a green headlamp. Plus, with Trad gear I never shoot past 17.3 yards anyway. ;-)
FYI to all planning on attending the Texas Hog hunt on February 22, 2020. I just checked the future Moon phase calendar for February 2020.....not great news for night time visibility....February 22nd is the start of the New Moon Phase, plan on getting no help from the Moon to hunt piggies at night. :o :dunno:
https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/2020/february (https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/2020/february)
No worries Mike...... We didn't have any help this year either.
Come February 2020 we will be geared for hog hunting every single night as we found out too late in the hunt.... this is what really works at that time of the year....4PM to 12 Midnight for hogs....Javi sightings were the norm during all daylight hours
Got word on another reflective application to enhance what we have now.....hope to hear good news soon.
Reflective crown dip with flourescent yellow creating and hot flo pink fletching combined with a lighted nock.
How heavy are the Firenocks compared to the Nockturnals ?
That's a good question, Jeff. I'll try to do a few calculations tomorrow and post a report.
Interesting stuff. I don't like the green lens in my bow mounted light or headlight, I prefer red. I can see to shoot better with the green, but in my experience the green is more apt to spook the pigs than the red is.
Philip when I was hunting them in Texas this January we did a story..... And I got away with Murder walking around and up to pigs with my green light.... I could not believe what I got away with.
Smokin Joe has read studies were pigs can't see green light....
I really wish someone would have filmed what I got away with.
Terry, I've used both the green and the red over the last 20 years while hunting in Texas. I, as well as my buddys that hunt with me, have switched to red. I've also read multiple studies. Hogs are colorblind to both red and green wavelengths, but the wavelength of green is closer to the wavelengths that hogs can see than red is. When I was setting up a light for my bow I talked with the manufacturer of some of the best lights for hog hunting on the market and he recommended red over green. http://www.sniperhawglights.com/ I know many people that still prefer the green, but in my experience the hogs spook less with red than green when using a bowlight. I'm basing this on my and my buddies experience over years, not just one or 2 hunts.
Ok thanks Phillip....Good to know. ...that's what we are after here. :thumbsup:
I shot my 1st hog with a white light probably 10 years ago with Matt Schuster
, and several of us killed them in TX with white....before we knew about red and green...for sure either is better than white....I've spooked a many of them with white but have killed a few as well.....thanks again Phillip
Keep it coming guys!
I
The Firenocks weigh 29 grains with the battery installed. The Lumenocks weigh 22 to 28 grains, depending on the size.
Joe, how are the fire nocks doing now....still reliable?
Phillip, have you tried Fire Nocks?
Terry, I haven't tried any of the lighted nocks. I do shoot arrows with reflective wraps.
Terry: I have been so busy getting ready to go to Canada that I have not run any more tests. When I get back I will put them through more testing. I do know that it is possible to mess up installing them and that they are a bit sensitive to how tight the nock is within the arrow shaft.
I would Like to add kudos to our Sponsor Eagle's Flight...... They have a strap attachment for a flashlight and it worked great for us and takes us In Texas.
We did a review on several products and this was one of them.
I agree. The EFA light holder is excellent.